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Nigel Farage quits as Ukip leader - last rat votes leave

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Re: Nigel Farage quits as Ukip leader - last rat votes leave

Postby Lordo » Mon Jul 04, 2016 6:04 pm

Londonrake wrote:
Lordo wrote:this is not a matter of reneging on the referendum, the mps and only the mps have the legal right to vote to change the laws of this country, not a referendum. they will also be given a free vote as both major parties are split over the matter. each mp will vote with his/her conscience. not only do the mps have to vote for it so do the lords and they are not elected. prime minister will then call for an election probably in january next year and walla there is your second referendum. we will get a chance to vote for mps who will vote for our wish. i suspect it will still be a free vote then too so the only way we are going to get brexit is if the brexiteer mps in both parties decide to leave their party and join ukip. i wish they did it now so we know who is who. now there is true democracy at work.


With respect, you are clutching at straws.

A referendum was held. Over 40 million voted. The majority was 4%, about 1,300,000, that would be a nice little result for a political party in any General Election, enabling it to govern unimpeded for 5 years. No questions asked and no talk of it being "unfair" with calls for another election by those who didn't like the result. That would be dismissed out-of-hand as the nonsense that it is and those responsible treated as sore-losing loons. Talk of people being lied to in the campaign would also be treated as risible. They're politicians for God's sake! Today's little example? Osborne talked in essence of punishing people with increased taxation if the vote went against him. Armageddon. Today he reveals a plan to reduce Corporation Tax by 3% over the next 4 years and then down to 15% later. Liar! I demand ......................... :roll: Cameron talked in terms of WWIII happening :lol: Liar! I'm not being bombed and want my money back! :roll:

The British Parliament ignoring the result of only the third national referendum held in the UK would provoke a constitutional crisis on a never before seen scale. It would be a betrayal of all that's embodied in the concept of democracy and perceived as such by a very large part of the electorate. As much as you might dream, it ain't gonna happen.

It seems that to many Remaniacs democracy is a glorious idea - as long as it agrees with them.

not at all, we are talking facts. i shan't repeat what i wrote but i repeat, the mps will have a free vote to declare article 50. it will not happen with the current crop of mps. the general election will be called. if the brexit mps win the next election then i agree it will go ahead but with great difficulty with the lords against it and they are not even elected.

with respect, the moment the sunderland result came in which was interpreted as higher brexit vote then predicted, the pound begun falling. the reduction in corporation tax is precisely because companies are planning their exit just as predicted. the tax rise osborne was talking about was for the public not corporations and they will come in time too. the reduction in corporation tax and the abandonment of balancing the books will also have a devastating effect on the countries finances. that price will have to be paid by the younger generation.

considering how close it was i am amazed you are against a second vote. but irrespective we shall have one any way. legality demands it unless of course the mps decide to vote for brexit, in which case then the lords will take over the process and it would take us till 2020. so even then you will have another vote for it.
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Re: Nigel Farage quits as Ukip leader - last rat votes leave

Postby Zenon33 » Mon Jul 04, 2016 6:41 pm

Respect for Nigel.
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Re: Nigel Farage quits as Ukip leader - last rat votes leave

Postby Londonrake » Mon Jul 04, 2016 7:14 pm

Tim Drayton wrote:We all have our opinions. I would say that 50% of those entitled to vote would begin to constitute a serious mandate. All the result showed us was what we all knew anyway. The country is heavily divided on the issue and it stacks up at around half for, half against.


No, it doesn't Tim. And wrt this vote your opinion is now redundant. I believe it was 52% for 48% against (?). As much as that might stick in the craw, it's what's technically referred to nevertheless as a "majority."

Are we then to have reruns of General Elections if the winning party's majority is slender and some people make a big fuss, protest and start petitions? Or if say Labour win should irate Conservative supporters be effective in insisting that not enough people voted to enforce such an important decision? What on Earth do you think this referendum was? A vote on Scottish independence?? :lol: :lol: :lol:

Where would it all end though? Mob rule. It's a recipe for blood on the streets. :shock:
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Re: Nigel Farage quits as Ukip leader - last rat votes leave

Postby Paul ZKTV » Mon Jul 04, 2016 7:25 pm

Londonrake wrote:You have some odd ideas about Ireland as a global financial centre Paul and it isn't just about tax.

Nowadays, whilst it may boast about being the "Home" of many institutions what they actually mean is they have the equivalent of a post box there. The Irish are totally ill-equipped to cater for the substantial activities carried out in London nowadays and there's absolutely no sign (or hope) that will change.

Neither France nor Germany have the necessary skills nor outlook to run an international financial centre on a global scale. It isn't all about Euro clearing operations by any means. That's almost incidental.

it's obviously a complex subject but all this talk of everybody just unplugging their computers, leaving Canary Wharf and wandering off in the direction of Calais/Dublin is frankly a load of horse shit.


you sound like a print worker in fleet street in the 1980s...

I trade across the world,i have customers in every part of the planet ,and can stop or start their service at the press of a button . No satellite dishes or tv aerials
and we charge 50% of the cost of others .
you can get super-servers in ICELAND ,so no need to have anything xcept 4G and a screen anywhere in europa - you can work from home,as i do or the beach ,as i do
WHY DO THEY NEED TO BE STUCK IN A UK OFFICE BLOCK ???
WHAT FOR ??


Im happy to hear why a bank cant pick the best 20% of their staff and move em out of the UK ....dublin or FF - Love the fact the germans áint got it ´

WHY DO THEY NEED TO BE STUCK IN A UK OFFICE BLOCK ???
WHAT FOR ??
Last edited by Paul ZKTV on Mon Jul 04, 2016 7:32 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Nigel Farage quits as Ukip leader - last rat votes leave

Postby Paul ZKTV » Mon Jul 04, 2016 7:28 pm

Londonrake wrote:
Tim Drayton wrote:We all have our opinions. I would say that 50% of those entitled to vote would begin to constitute a serious mandate. All the result showed us was what we all knew anyway. The country is heavily divided on the issue and it stacks up at around half for, half against.


No, it doesn't Tim. And wrt this vote your opinion is now redundant. I believe it was 52% for 48% against (?). As much as that might stick in the craw, it's what's technically referred to nevertheless as a "majority."

Are we then to have reruns of General Elections if the winning party's majority is slender and some people make a big fuss, protest and start petitions? Or if say Labour win should irate Conservative supporters be effective in insisting that not enough people voted to enforce such an important decision? What on Earth do you think this referendum was? A vote on Scottish independence?? :lol: :lol: :lol:

Where would it all end though? Mob rule. It's a recipe for blood on the streets. :shock:


No becaue it will be a LIBDEM/SNP government as they are the only party still standing ...with a northern leader
if the SNP can wipe out the old guard in scotland ,they can do it in england ..
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Re: Nigel Farage quits as Ukip leader - last rat votes leave

Postby Paul ZKTV » Mon Jul 04, 2016 7:29 pm

Londonrake wrote:
Tim Drayton wrote:We all have our opinions. I would say that 50% of those entitled to vote would begin to constitute a serious mandate. All the result showed us was what we all knew anyway. The country is heavily divided on the issue and it stacks up at around half for, half against.


No, it doesn't Tim. And wrt this vote your opinion is now redundant. I believe it was 52% for 48% against (?). As much as that might stick in the craw, it's what's technically referred to nevertheless as a "majority."

Are we then to have reruns of General Elections if the winning party's majority is slender and some people make a big fuss, protest and start petitions? Or if say Labour win should irate Conservative supporters be effective in insisting that not enough people voted to enforce such an important decision? What on Earth do you think this referendum was? A vote on Scottish independence?? :lol: :lol: :lol:

Where would it all end though? Mob rule. It's a recipe for blood on the streets. :shock:


No becaue it will be a LIBDEM/SNP government as they are the only party still standing ...with a northern leader
if the SNP can wipe out the old guard in scotland ,they can do it in england ..
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Re: Nigel Farage quits as Ukip leader - last rat votes leave

Postby miltiades » Mon Jul 04, 2016 7:39 pm

Londonrake wrote:
Lordo wrote:this is not a matter of reneging on the referendum, the mps and only the mps have the legal right to vote to change the laws of this country, not a referendum. they will also be given a free vote as both major parties are split over the matter. each mp will vote with his/her conscience. not only do the mps have to vote for it so do the lords and they are not elected. prime minister will then call for an election probably in january next year and walla there is your second referendum. we will get a chance to vote for mps who will vote for our wish. i suspect it will still be a free vote then too so the only way we are going to get brexit is if the brexiteer mps in both parties decide to leave their party and join ukip. i wish they did it now so we know who is who. now there is true democracy at work.


With respect, you are clutching at straws.

A referendum was held. Over 40 million voted. The majority was 4%, about 1,300,000, that would be a nice little result for a political party in any General Election, enabling it to govern unimpeded for 5 years. No questions asked and no talk of it being "unfair" with calls for another election by those who didn't like the result. That would be dismissed out-of-hand as the nonsense that it is and those responsible treated as sore-losing loons. Talk of people being lied to in the campaign would also be treated as risible. They're politicians for God's sake! Today's little example? Osborne talked in essence of punishing people with increased taxation if the vote went against him. Armageddon. Today he reveals a plan to reduce Corporation Tax by 3% over the next 4 years and then down to 15% later. Liar! I demand ......................... :roll: Cameron talked in terms of WWIII happening :lol: Liar! I'm not being bombed and want my money back! :roll:

The British Parliament ignoring the result of only the third national referendum held in the UK would provoke a constitutional crisis on a never before seen scale. It would be a betrayal of all that's embodied in the concept of democracy and perceived as such by a very large part of the electorate. As much as you might dream, it ain't gonna happen.

It seems that to many Remaniacs democracy is a glorious idea - as long as it agrees with them.

Forty million voted ? Not quite old chap, do your arithmetic again. The referendum does not, unlike an election, have any legality, MPs will first have to repeal the 1972 accession act before being asked to vote for Article 50 to be invoked. A legal requirement.
Two to three months down the road when the geriatric mostly little Englanders begin to comprehend the severe consequences of exiting the EU, who is to say that Parliament will press the self destruct button !
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Re: Nigel Farage quits as Ukip leader - last rat votes leave

Postby Paul ZKTV » Mon Jul 04, 2016 7:46 pm

miltiades wrote:
Londonrake wrote:
Lordo wrote:this is not a matter of reneging on the referendum, the mps and only the mps have the legal right to vote to change the laws of this country, not a referendum. they will also be given a free vote as both major parties are split over the matter. each mp will vote with his/her conscience. not only do the mps have to vote for it so do the lords and they are not elected. prime minister will then call for an election probably in january next year and walla there is your second referendum. we will get a chance to vote for mps who will vote for our wish. i suspect it will still be a free vote then too so the only way we are going to get brexit is if the brexiteer mps in both parties decide to leave their party and join ukip. i wish they did it now so we know who is who. now there is true democracy at work.


With respect, you are clutching at straws.

A referendum was held. Over 40 million voted. The majority was 4%, about 1,300,000, that would be a nice little result for a political party in any General Election, enabling it to govern unimpeded for 5 years. No questions asked and no talk of it being "unfair" with calls for another election by those who didn't like the result. That would be dismissed out-of-hand as the nonsense that it is and those responsible treated as sore-losing loons. Talk of people being lied to in the campaign would also be treated as risible. They're politicians for God's sake! Today's little example? Osborne talked in essence of punishing people with increased taxation if the vote went against him. Armageddon. Today he reveals a plan to reduce Corporation Tax by 3% over the next 4 years and then down to 15% later. Liar! I demand ......................... :roll: Cameron talked in terms of WWIII happening :lol: Liar! I'm not being bombed and want my money back! :roll:

The British Parliament ignoring the result of only the third national referendum held in the UK would provoke a constitutional crisis on a never before seen scale. It would be a betrayal of all that's embodied in the concept of democracy and perceived as such by a very large part of the electorate. As much as you might dream, it ain't gonna happen.

It seems that to many Remaniacs democracy is a glorious idea - as long as it agrees with them.

Forty million voted ? Not quite old chap, do your arithmetic again. The referendum does not, unlike an election, have any legality, MPs will first have to repeal the 1972 accession act before being asked to vote for Article 50 to be invoked. A legal requirement.
Two to three months down the road when the geriatric mostly little Englanders begin to comprehend the severe consequences of exiting the EU, who is to say that Parliament will press the self destruct button !

they would have to AMEND the European Communities Act 1972 and include the 24 month limit ...
ection 18: The Sovereignty Clause[edit]
On 6 October 2010, the Government announced that the Act would include a provision "to underline that what a sovereign Parliament can do, a sovereign Parliament can always undo".[5] The clause, eventually enacted as section 18 of the Act provides that:

"Status of EU law dependent on continuing statutory basis
Directly applicable or directly effective EU law (that is, the rights, powers, liabilities, obligations, restrictions, remedies and procedures referred to in section 2(1) of the European Communities Act 1972) falls to be recognised and available in law in the United Kingdom only by virtue of that Act or where it is required to be recognised and available in law by virtue of any other Act."
The thing that not many people have picked up on is that ALL POWERS WOULD NOT GO BACK TO WESTMINSTER
i dont know which ones but they would be chopped up between westminster,scotland,northrn ireland and wales.

And miltiades is right ,in law it means bugger all the vote - NO PM and i dont care what they say today ,is going to do a A50 without a general election ,and T.MAY knows
this and cannot afford to wait for labour to get a new leader ..so im looking GENERAL ELECTION IN OCT .
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Re: Nigel Farage quits as Ukip leader - last rat votes leave

Postby Londonrake » Mon Jul 04, 2016 8:06 pm

miltiades wrote:Forty million voted ? Not quite old chap, do your arithmetic again. The referendum does not, unlike an election, have any legality, MPs will first have to repeal the 1972 accession act before being asked to vote for Article 50 to be invoked. A legal requirement.
Two to three months down the road when the geriatric mostly little Englanders begin to comprehend the severe consequences of exiting the EU, who is to say that Parliament will press the self destruct button !


The vote turn out has already been covered. My mistake acknowledged and apology issued to Paul. It was of course only about 33,500,000 or so. Although that constituted around 72% of the possible electorate. Pretty good by most UK voting standards nowadays.

The Referendum is advisory of course. You issue an invitation to the electorate of the UK to vote on a subject. There would be clear and obvious implications to not acting upon the majority result. A conundrum if of course you don't happen to like it. Nevertheless the implications of effectively ignoring the outcome of such an expensive, much campaigned for and very rare event would have significant constitutional ramificatiions. What was the point of having it in the first place if you were only willing to accept one result? An expensive farce.

I think your talk of "Geriatric Little Englanders" shows just why a lot of people probably decided to vote the way they did. The geriatrics are of course the people who spent their lives working for and in some cases fighting for the place. Frankly it's an appallingly arrogant attitude and would probably have garnered more leave votes than Eddie Izzard - in drag.

Sadly we live in "interesting times". Whatever eventually comes out of all this - whichever way it goes - I suspect there will be significant chaos. The sort of attitude you display in your post demonstrates very well the divisions there are now in Britain. I am not optimistic for my family there.
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Re: Nigel Farage quits as Ukip leader - last rat votes leave

Postby Londonrake » Mon Jul 04, 2016 8:21 pm

Paul ZKTV wrote:No becaue it will be a LIBDEM/SNP government as they are the only party still standing ...with a northern leader
if the SNP can wipe out the old guard in scotland ,they can do it in england ..


I'm trying to get my head around the SNP campaigning for seats in England. Why not Sinn Fein? Well,they're just as pro EU. They do have their own parliaments of course.

The Lib/Dems are a spent force, paying the price for deserting their voter base in exchange for a nice few years of actually being in power. They're like those "Where are they now?" things you get on YouTube. I doubt you will see them in significant numbers for quite some time.

That all sounds a bit like fanciful desperation TBH Paul.
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