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Nigel Farage quits as Ukip leader - last rat votes leave

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Re: Nigel Farage quits as Ukip leader - last rat votes leave

Postby Paul ZKTV » Mon Jul 04, 2016 8:43 pm

Londonrake wrote:
Paul ZKTV wrote:No becaue it will be a LIBDEM/SNP government as they are the only party still standing ...with a northern leader
if the SNP can wipe out the old guard in scotland ,they can do it in england ..


I'm trying to get my head around the SNP campaigning for seats in England. Why not Sinn Fein? Well,they're just as pro EU. They do have their own parliaments of course.

The Lib/Dems are a spent force, paying the price for deserting their voter base in exchange for a nice few years of actually being in power. They're like those "Where are they now?" things you get on YouTube. I doubt you will see them in significant numbers for quite some time.

That all sounds a bit like fanciful desperation TBH Paul.


The SNP would be in scotland and the LIBDEMS would be in england
the SNP have wiped out LABOUR in scotland
the LIBDEMs being the ONLY NO A50 party ,will get all the úp to 62%´ of EU voters - moving from softleft or softright to the centre is not much of move
the LABOUR party is a mess and UKIP is UKIP
the TORIES wil be blamed for getting us in this mess ...

Going on about the libdems and student loans is like going on about the winslow boy when WW1 has broken out ...

this took 130 days without a shot
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qyz7poxAnGI
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Re: Nigel Farage quits as Ukip leader - last rat votes leave

Postby Paul ZKTV » Mon Jul 04, 2016 8:53 pm

Londonrake wrote:
miltiades wrote:Forty million voted ? Not quite old chap, do your arithmetic again. The referendum does not, unlike an election, have any legality, MPs will first have to repeal the 1972 accession act before being asked to vote for Article 50 to be invoked. A legal requirement.
Two to three months down the road when the geriatric mostly little Englanders begin to comprehend the severe consequences of exiting the EU, who is to say that Parliament will press the self destruct button !


The vote turn out has already been covered. My mistake acknowledged and apology issued to Paul. It was of course only about 33,500,000 or so. Although that constituted around 72% of the possible electorate. Pretty good by most UK voting standards nowadays.

The Referendum is advisory of course. You issue an invitation to the electorate of the UK to vote on a subject. There would be clear and obvious implications to not acting upon the majority result. A conundrum if of course you don't happen to like it. Nevertheless the implications of effectively ignoring the outcome of such an expensive, much campaigned for and very rare event would have significant constitutional ramificatiions. What was the point of having it in the first place if you were only willing to accept one result? An expensive farce.

I think your talk of "Geriatric Little Englanders" shows just why a lot of people probably decided to vote the way they did. The geriatrics are of course the people who spent their lives working for and in some cases fighting for the place. Frankly it's an appallingly arrogant attitude and would probably have garnered more leave votes than Eddie Izzard - in drag.

Sadly we live in "interesting times". Whatever eventually comes out of all this - whichever way it goes - I suspect there will be significant chaos. The sort of attitude you display in your post demonstrates very well the divisions there are now in Britain. I am not optimistic for my family there.


to have been on the beachs of D-DAY you have to be over 92 - having been on the beaches with mods and rockers in 1965 dont count . im getting fed up people lumping people who died in WW2 with todays OAPS...
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Re: Nigel Farage quits as Ukip leader - last rat votes leave

Postby Cap » Mon Jul 04, 2016 9:43 pm

No respect from me.

The coward abandoned ship amidst the confusion, uncertainty and fear of the general public... when they needed him the most.
To me it was a hit a run, barely a week after the referendum.
Cowardly behavior from a scared man who couldn't deal with the heat and consequences.
A man with conviction would have stuck to his guns until a certain time that would have been ideal to leave with one's head held up high.
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Re: Nigel Farage quits as Ukip leader - last rat votes leave

Postby Get Real! » Mon Jul 04, 2016 9:53 pm

The British government should press on with the democratic choice made by the British public, with or without Farage!

Cameron’s bluff has been called and now they should deliver the will of the majority.

If not they’ll become the laughing stock in the world for pretending to be democratic.

All the things they were criticizing the EU of (ie: non democratic) will have backfired in their faces!
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Re: Nigel Farage quits as Ukip leader - last rat votes leave

Postby Zenon33 » Mon Jul 04, 2016 9:55 pm

Londonrake wrote:
Paul ZKTV wrote:No becaue it will be a LIBDEM/SNP government as they are the only party still standing ...with a northern leader
if the SNP can wipe out the old guard in scotland ,they can do it in england ..


I'm trying to get my head around the SNP campaigning for seats in England. Why not Sinn Fein? Well,they're just as pro EU. They do have their own parliaments of course.

The Lib/Dems are a spent force, paying the price for deserting their voter base in exchange for a nice few years of actually being in power. They're like those "Where are they now?" things you get on YouTube. I doubt you will see them in significant numbers for quite some time.

That all sounds a bit like fanciful desperation TBH Paul.



Scots reject independence because the EU question. Now with Britain out of the EU they want another referendum.
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Re: Nigel Farage quits as Ukip leader - last rat votes leave

Postby Paul ZKTV » Mon Jul 04, 2016 10:39 pm

Zenon33 wrote:
Londonrake wrote:
Paul ZKTV wrote:No becaue it will be a LIBDEM/SNP government as they are the only party still standing ...with a northern leader
if the SNP can wipe out the old guard in scotland ,they can do it in england ..


I'm trying to get my head around the SNP campaigning for seats in England. Why not Sinn Fein? Well,they're just as pro EU. They do have their own parliaments of course.

The Lib/Dems are a spent force, paying the price for deserting their voter base in exchange for a nice few years of actually being in power. They're like those "Where are they now?" things you get on YouTube. I doubt you will see them in significant numbers for quite some time.

That all sounds a bit like fanciful desperation TBH Paul.



Scots reject independence because the EU question. Now with Britain out of the EU they want another referendum.


They want to stay in the EU,and if you look at IRELAND ,It has HOME RULE in 1921 ,but only became a republic in 1949 ..
so scotland is happy to go in that direction -
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Re: Nigel Farage quits as Ukip leader - last rat votes leave

Postby Cap » Mon Jul 04, 2016 11:12 pm

Zenon, the Scots voted majority remain.
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Re: Nigel Farage quits as Ukip leader - last rat votes leave

Postby Zenon33 » Mon Jul 04, 2016 11:28 pm

Cap wrote:Zenon, the Scots voted majority remain.



Yes.
I'm talking about the Scottish independence referendum two years ago. They vote NO because UK was an EU member.
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Re: Nigel Farage quits as Ukip leader - last rat votes leave

Postby Tim Drayton » Tue Jul 05, 2016 5:45 am

Londonrake wrote:
Tim Drayton wrote:We all have our opinions. I would say that 50% of those entitled to vote would begin to constitute a serious mandate. All the result showed us was what we all knew anyway. The country is heavily divided on the issue and it stacks up at around half for, half against.


No, it doesn't Tim. And wrt this vote your opinion is now redundant. I believe it was 52% for 48% against (?). As much as that might stick in the craw, it's what's technically referred to nevertheless as a "majority."

Are we then to have reruns of General Elections if the winning party's majority is slender and some people make a big fuss, protest and start petitions? Or if say Labour win should irate Conservative supporters be effective in insisting that not enough people voted to enforce such an important decision? What on Earth do you think this referendum was? A vote on Scottish independence?? :lol: :lol: :lol:

Where would it all end though? Mob rule. It's a recipe for blood on the streets. :shock:


This wasn't a general election, it was a referendum. The two have very different constitutional statuses. Of course, the rules governing general elections are clear and there is no doubt about who gets elected. If one candidate gets one more vote than the closest rival, that candidate is elected to that seat, and the party with the most seats in parliament forms the government. We do not have proportional representation, so the total percentage of votes cast for each party is irrelevant, anyway, so it is not a very good comparison. In fact, there have been closely fought elections in the past in which the party that took the highest percentage of the vote lost. The referendum was simply advisory and sovereignty rests with parliament. Parliament is not bound by the result. It may stick in the craw, but this is our constitution. Yes, it was a narrow majority constituting about one third of the total of those who were entitled to vote. There are those who would argue that such major and irreversible change cannot be made on a mere simple majority, but requires a qualified majority.

Don’t forget that Nigel Farage said before the referendum: “In a 52-48 referendum this would be unfinished business by a long way. If the remain campaign win two-thirds to one-third that ends it.”

http://metro.co.uk/2016/06/24/remember- ... m-5963900/

I would agree. 52-48 doesn’t really prove anything either way. It just shows that the country is deeply polarised over the issue.
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Re: Nigel Farage quits as Ukip leader - last rat votes leave

Postby Londonrake » Tue Jul 05, 2016 10:35 am

Paul ZKTV wrote:to have been on the beachs of D-DAY you have to be over 92 - having been on the beaches with mods and rockers in 1965 dont count . im getting fed up people lumping people who died in WW2 with todays OAPS...


Good morning Paul.

Perhaps you're looking at it the wrong way. Who said anything about WW2?

Since 1945 British Forces have been involved in dozens of conflicts and several wars. I appreciate it isn't a cause celebre with those on the left but true nevertheless. The soldier running up Inchon Beach, marine yomping across the Falklands scrublands, or sailor fighting from ships thousands of miles from home. The tankie or squaddie dug in on the road to Basra or holed up in Helmand ................weren't actually mercenaries. They were fighting for Britain and it's allies and thousands of them have died doing so. It isn't at all the case that "Fighting for their country" could only be against the Wehrmacht on a Normandy beach.

Older people have also had the advantage (??) of experiencing 40 years of "The Common Market's" realities. As I mentioned earlier there is of course the fact that they've often spent decades, if not lifetimes, working and contributing to the UK. Whilst the most comfortable, least disruptive and short-term family-friendly option was to vote Remain they didn't. Treating Leave voters with sneering contempt is pretty despicable I think. What's next? Removing the vote and enforced sterilisation? They had their say, just like you and that right should be respected.

It seems a fairly uniform characteristic of the Remaniacs that they have to pour vitriolic scorn on any person who voted Leave. I don't think it's contentious to say that a vast number or those who did the opposite had absolutely no idea about the issues involved. They voted Remain because status quo is invariably the default in these situations. It should have been a walk in the park for the remain camp to win this referendum.They didn't. They failed to do so for a number of reasons including the absolutely inept "Scare" campaign waged incessantly by Cameron/Osborne and Co, an unbelievable inability to understand the British character. That coupled with the sort of sneering contempt we are seeing in some of these posts from the Remain camp and Mr Corbyn's unconvincing, almost invisible, low-key campaign. If you look at the voting spread it seems obvious that disgruntled Labour voters in the midlands and north of England played the most significant role in the outcome. Interesting that places with a high concentration of fairly recent immigrants (1-3rd generation) voted strongly to leave. :?

BTW I vividly recall reading about it on my paper round. The principle "war" between the Mods and Rockers took place on the likes of Brighton beach during the spring of 1964. :D :wink:
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