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UK Government refuses to guarantee EU citizens

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Re: UK Government refuses to guarantee EU citizens

Postby Tim Drayton » Thu Jul 07, 2016 8:31 am

Paul ZKTV wrote:
Tim Drayton wrote:
Pyrpolizer wrote:I don't think any EU country would have a problem continuing to provide current British residents the rights they now have.
It's the UK itself that will have a problem doing the same for those originating from Eastern EU countries, now residing in the UK .
So what kind of deal is the UK upto? One that would protect her own people and fck the rest???


It is clear to me that, if the UK ever gets round to invoking Article 50 - a big 'if' in my eyes - whatever deal is brokered on this issue will have to be reciprocal. For example, if all EU nationals currently resident in the UK get to stay, then so will British nationals currently resident in other EU countries. If one lot have to leave, so will the other. The arithmetic works out well, too, given that there are about the same number of British nationals living in other EU countries as EU nationals living in the UK. Actually, when you take that fact into consideration, it is hard to understand what the fuss is about.


i think you are missing a important point - it is not up to the EU if the brits stay ,its up to 31 countries - spain charges non-eu (china africa,south americans) €700 for public health care for the over 75s
and €350 for those under 65 . it would mean 31 contracts for halth care alone to be done within 700 days ..

on the other hand it has 1,000,000 empty flats from €40,000


OK, I'm not a constitutional lawyer, but I would say that whatever agreement is reached in the UK-EU negotiations following the invoking of Article 50 (if it ever comes to that) will be binding on the member states in the same way that EU legislation is.
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Re: UK Government refuses to guarantee EU citizens

Postby Londonrake » Thu Jul 07, 2016 10:42 am

I've just been catching up on some of the posts this morning.

What's striking to me is that it's nearly all speculation and supposition which is however being presented in the tone of fact.

On the subject of people having to leave countries I feel sure that - ironically - such "expulsions" are illegal in the EU. I think it's part of the same article that forbids the deportation of people to countries where they might be tortured or suffer inhumane treatment, etc. 19? I think the UK tax regime is very inhumane! :lol:

Whilst individual countries I'm sure could make life very unpleasant for UK expats why on earth would the likes of Cyprus wish to do so? It's worth bearing in mind the reciprocal numbers and the economic and historical links perhaps?

Some deal will surely be done but, come on, it's only day 13. :wink:
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Re: UK Government refuses to guarantee EU citizens

Postby Tim Drayton » Thu Jul 07, 2016 11:25 am

Tim Drayton wrote:
Paul ZKTV wrote:
Tim Drayton wrote:
Pyrpolizer wrote:I don't think any EU country would have a problem continuing to provide current British residents the rights they now have.
It's the UK itself that will have a problem doing the same for those originating from Eastern EU countries, now residing in the UK .
So what kind of deal is the UK upto? One that would protect her own people and fck the rest???


It is clear to me that, if the UK ever gets round to invoking Article 50 - a big 'if' in my eyes - whatever deal is brokered on this issue will have to be reciprocal. For example, if all EU nationals currently resident in the UK get to stay, then so will British nationals currently resident in other EU countries. If one lot have to leave, so will the other. The arithmetic works out well, too, given that there are about the same number of British nationals living in other EU countries as EU nationals living in the UK. Actually, when you take that fact into consideration, it is hard to understand what the fuss is about.


i think you are missing a important point - it is not up to the EU if the brits stay ,its up to 31 countries - spain charges non-eu (china africa,south americans) €700 for public health care for the over 75s
and €350 for those under 65 . it would mean 31 contracts for halth care alone to be done within 700 days ..

on the other hand it has 1,000,000 empty flats from €40,000


OK, I'm not a constitutional lawyer, but I would say that whatever agreement is reached in the UK-EU negotiations following the invoking of Article 50 (if it ever comes to that) will be binding on the member states in the same way that EU legislation is.


Having said that, every country would presumably have the right of veto over the agreement, so it would also be up to each individual member country. Article 50 negotiations have obviously never taken place before, so probably nobody knows for sure.
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Re: UK Government refuses to guarantee EU citizens

Postby Robin Hood » Thu Jul 07, 2016 11:44 am

Paul ZKTV wrote:
Tim Drayton wrote:
Kikapu wrote:
Pyrpolizer wrote:I don't think any EU country would have a problem continuing to provide current British residents the rights they now have.
It's the UK itself that will have a problem doing the same for those originating from Eastern EU countries, now residing in the UK .
So what kind of deal is the UK upto? One that would protect her own people and fck the rest???


Perhaps the EU countries should offer any Brits under the age of 40 and their families a citizenship of any EU country in exchange for the Brits giving up their British citizenship. :idea:

Lets see who is going to remain in the UK to pay taxes to support the pensioners who had voted to leave the EU. :lol:


The leader of Germany's opposition Social Democrats suggested - noting that young people in the UK voted overwhelmingly to remain - that Germany should give citizenship to any young British people who wanted it. This was probably a tongue in cheek comment, but a nice gesture anyhow.


yes the french are saying that ´working age familes ´ who pay taxes and have been there for 5 years can stay - notice nothing about non-tax paying OAPS..


You really are dumb! These non-tax paying OAP's bring in all their income from outside, the state of residence does not have to support them or their families. All these tax paying working age (and breeding age) people derive their income from within the country. So what all these useless non-tax paying OAPS bring in from outside goes towards paying their salaries and social benefits such as education for their children.

These non-tax paying OAPS you treat with such utter contempt are worth more to the economy than the young tax payers. If we happen to get medical treatment ...... we are paying for it by our contribution to the economy, which is more than is provided by reciprocal agreements.

You are letting your overbearing hatred of pensioners, particularly if they happen to be UK nationals, take control over common sense but then maybe you didn't have too much common sense to start with anyway. Basically you talk cr*p! :roll:
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Re: UK Government refuses to guarantee EU citizens

Postby Paul ZKTV » Thu Jul 07, 2016 10:09 pm

The french have already said that TAX PAYING workers from the UK can stay in france after only 1 year in being there

Why do you think OAPs are an asset to a country ,they dont pay tax and they get sick and cost money ...
you do know they if you keep saying ´theres no place like home,theres no place like home´it dont come true
im still waiting for any paperwork from anywhere about how the UK and ROC cover each others health care
i
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Re: UK Government refuses to guarantee EU citizens

Postby Paul ZKTV » Thu Jul 07, 2016 10:14 pm

Londonrake wrote:I've just been catching up on some of the posts this morning.

What's striking to me is that it's nearly all speculation and supposition which is however being presented in the tone of fact.

On the subject of people having to leave countries I feel sure that - ironically - such "expulsions" are illegal in the EU. I think it's part of the same article that forbids the deportation of people to countries where they might be tortured or suffer inhumane treatment, etc. 19? I think the UK tax regime is very inhumane! :lol:

Whilst individual countries I'm sure could make life very unpleasant for UK expats why on earth would the likes of Cyprus wish to do so? It's worth bearing in mind the reciprocal numbers and the economic and historical links perhaps?

Some deal will surely be done but, come on, it's only day 13. :wink:


yes thats the point ´´in the EEA ´ the UK is leaving and everyone can go home and be happy
a polish worker can sell his old victorian house in the UK to a returning english OAP ,and build himself a 20 bed palace in poland ..
most of them i know always talked about going home and a lot will now -
CYPRUS cant afford to do bypass on every other brit -
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Re: UK Government refuses to guarantee EU citizens

Postby Paul ZKTV » Thu Jul 07, 2016 10:22 pm

Tim Drayton wrote:
Tim Drayton wrote:
Paul ZKTV wrote:
Tim Drayton wrote:
Pyrpolizer wrote:I don't think any EU country would have a problem continuing to provide current British residents the rights they now have.
It's the UK itself that will have a problem doing the same for those originating from Eastern EU countries, now residing in the UK .
So what kind of deal is the UK upto? One that would protect her own people and fck the rest???


It is clear to me that, if the UK ever gets round to invoking Article 50 - a big 'if' in my eyes - whatever deal is brokered on this issue will have to be reciprocal. For example, if all EU nationals currently resident in the UK get to stay, then so will British nationals currently resident in other EU countries. If one lot have to leave, so will the other. The arithmetic works out well, too, given that there are about the same number of British nationals living in other EU countries as EU nationals living in the UK. Actually, when you take that fact into consideration, it is hard to understand what the fuss is about.


i think you are missing a important point - it is not up to the EU if the brits stay ,its up to 31 countries - spain charges non-eu (china africa,south americans) €700 for public health care for the over 75s
and €350 for those under 65 . it would mean 31 contracts for halth care alone to be done within 700 days ..

on the other hand it has 1,000,000 empty flats from €40,000


OK, I'm not a constitutional lawyer, but I would say that whatever agreement is reached in the UK-EU negotiations following the invoking of Article 50 (if it ever comes to that) will be binding on the member states in the same way that EU legislation is.


Having said that, every country would presumably have the right of veto over the agreement, so it would also be up to each individual member country. Article 50 negotiations have obviously never taken place before, so probably nobody knows for sure.


Qualified majority voting applies in the Council. Under this procedure, when the Council votes on a proposal by the Commission , a qualified majority is reached if two conditions are met:

55% of member states vote in favour - in practice this means 16 out of 28
the proposal is supported by member states representing at least 65% of the total EU population
This new procedure is also known as the 'double majority' rule.

Blocking minority
The blocking minority must include at least four Council members representing more than 35% of the EU population.
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Re: UK Government refuses to guarantee EU citizens

Postby Pyrpolizer » Thu Jul 07, 2016 11:44 pm

Tim Drayton wrote:
Pyrpolizer wrote:I don't think any EU country would have a problem continuing to provide current British residents the rights they now have.
It's the UK itself that will have a problem doing the same for those originating from Eastern EU countries, now residing in the UK .
So what kind of deal is the UK upto? One that would protect her own people and fck the rest???


It is clear to me that, if the UK ever gets round to invoking Article 50 - a big 'if' in my eyes - whatever deal is brokered on this issue will have to be reciprocal. For example, if all EU nationals currently resident in the UK get to stay, then so will British nationals currently resident in other EU countries. If one lot have to leave, so will the other. The arithmetic works out well, too, given that there are about the same number of British nationals living in other EU countries as EU nationals living in the UK. Actually, when you take that fact into consideration, it is hard to understand what the fuss is about.


Well, if it's going to be reciprocal, then why the vote for Brexit? One of their presumably "biggest problems" will not be solved. It will just freeze at current numbers...they will continue having as many Eastern europeans as they have now. That number wasn't affordable 2 weeks ago...
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Re: UK Government refuses to guarantee EU citizens

Postby Robin Hood » Fri Jul 08, 2016 8:57 am

This is the biggest problem with the EU and why so many voted to get out before it happens.

This guy, like him or not, has far more charisma and personality than any other UK political leader. He responds to questions off the cuff, doesn’t preach but explains. We could do a lot worse when you look at what others are available to lead the UK. He answers questions from a YOUNG Dutchman.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RoW2I6jrwXk
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Re: UK Government refuses to guarantee EU citizens

Postby Tim Drayton » Fri Jul 08, 2016 11:18 am

Pyrpolizer wrote:
Tim Drayton wrote:
Pyrpolizer wrote:I don't think any EU country would have a problem continuing to provide current British residents the rights they now have.
It's the UK itself that will have a problem doing the same for those originating from Eastern EU countries, now residing in the UK .
So what kind of deal is the UK upto? One that would protect her own people and fck the rest???


It is clear to me that, if the UK ever gets round to invoking Article 50 - a big 'if' in my eyes - whatever deal is brokered on this issue will have to be reciprocal. For example, if all EU nationals currently resident in the UK get to stay, then so will British nationals currently resident in other EU countries. If one lot have to leave, so will the other. The arithmetic works out well, too, given that there are about the same number of British nationals living in other EU countries as EU nationals living in the UK. Actually, when you take that fact into consideration, it is hard to understand what the fuss is about.


Well, if it's going to be reciprocal, then why the vote for Brexit? One of their presumably "biggest problems" will not be solved. It will just freeze at current numbers...they will continue having as many Eastern europeans as they have now. That number wasn't affordable 2 weeks ago...


Well, it seems Boris Johnson, the leader of the leave campaign, would not agree with you. He said in parliament when speaking on a motion in support of the right of EU citizens currently residing in the UK to remain, which was passed 245-2 on Wednesday:

Johnson, who was heckled in the Commons as he stood to speak, said he wanted to “set on record that the Vote Leave campaign gave exactly this reassurance to people living and working here, and it is very disappointing this should be called into question.

“It is absolutely right to issue the strongest possible reassurance to EU nationals in this country, not just for moral or humanitarian reasons but for very strong economic reasons too,” he said.

“They are welcome, they are necessary, and they are a crucial part of our society and I will be passionately supporting this motion tonight.”


http://www.theguardian.com/politics/201 ... u-migrants
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