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ALL SCOTTISH PARTIES SAY YES TO VOTE

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Re: ALL SCOTTISH PARTIES SAY YES TO VOTE

Postby Londonrake » Tue Jul 12, 2016 5:22 pm

supporttheunderdog wrote:
Londonrake wrote:No, I'm sorry GIG (are you married? :D )


Husband by name of Talisker... might give a clue as to to his ethnos...


Just joking. Not that Mrs LR ever looks in here. Well, I don't think she does. ImageImage
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Re: ALL SCOTTISH PARTIES SAY YES TO VOTE

Postby Tim Drayton » Tue Jul 12, 2016 5:23 pm

Londonrake wrote:
...

Siemens openly admit that they are backtracking on a statement the company made before the vote.

"German industrial giant Siemens has said it will continue to invest in the UK, despite earlier warnings that a vote to leave the EU could affect its future activities in the country."

"Siemens, the largest engineering company in Europe has said it will continue to invest in the UK, despite the Brexit vote. .........This is in contrast to a warning from Siemens UK a couple of weeks ago, where it said that Britain's decision to leave the European Union (EU) could have a negative impact on future investment in the country."


...


I have scoured that Telegraph article several times and can't find either of those two quotes there. Leaving that to one side, I see no 'open admission' by Siemens. This is the interpretation of the Telegraph hack who wrote the article, not quotes by Siemens. In fact, it could be the case that Siemens, while planning to continue to invest in the UK, are now planning to invest less than before. In that case both statements would be true - the one that a leave vote could (note it says could, anyway, not necessarily will) have a negative impact on future investment, even assuming that the statement used 'will' in the case that, say (plucking a figure from the air) Siemens was planning to invest 200 billion euro in the UK over the next ten years, and has now halved that figure to 100 billion, then yes, they are continuing to invest but less than they previously planned, i.e. the vote had a negative impact on their investment plans. There is no necessary contradiction between the two statements.
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Re: ALL SCOTTISH PARTIES SAY YES TO VOTE

Postby Londonrake » Tue Jul 12, 2016 5:26 pm

Tim Drayton wrote:
Londonrake wrote:
...

Siemens openly admit that they are backtracking on a statement the company made before the vote.

"German industrial giant Siemens has said it will continue to invest in the UK, despite earlier warnings that a vote to leave the EU could affect its future activities in the country."

"Siemens, the largest engineering company in Europe has said it will continue to invest in the UK, despite the Brexit vote. .........This is in contrast to a warning from Siemens UK a couple of weeks ago, where it said that Britain's decision to leave the European Union (EU) could have a negative impact on future investment in the country."


...


I have scoured that Telegraph article several times and can't find either of those two quotes there. Leaving that to one side, I see no 'open admission' by Siemens. This is the interpretation of the Telegraph hack who wrote the article, not quotes by Siemens. In fact, it could be the case that Siemens, while planning to continue to invest in the UK, are now planning to invest less than before. In that case both statements would be true - the one that a leave vote could (note it says could, anyway, not necessarily will) have a negative impact on future investment, even assuming that the statement used 'will' in the case that, say (plucking a figure from the air) Siemens was planning to invest 200 billion euro in the UK over the next ten years, and has now halved that figure to 100 billion, then yes, they are continuing to invest but less than they previously planned, i.e. the vote had a negative impact on their investment plans. There is no necessary contradiction between the two statements.


Then obviously they are all lying. Siemens never said an out vote could have implications for their investment strategy in the UK and subsequently that it didn't. What on earth was I and all those broadsheet financial papers thinking of?
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Re: ALL SCOTTISH PARTIES SAY YES TO VOTE

Postby Tim Drayton » Tue Jul 12, 2016 5:28 pm

Londonrake wrote:[

Then obviously they are all lying.


They're giving a deliberately distorted version of the truth, yes.
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Re: ALL SCOTTISH PARTIES SAY YES TO VOTE

Postby Tim Drayton » Tue Jul 12, 2016 5:40 pm

Well, maybe this helps. I found this from a Financial Times article from yesterday, saying that prior to the referendum Siemens:

told its 14,000 UK employees the higher costs and uncertainties of a British EU exit “could make the UK a less attractive place to do business and may become a factor when Siemens is considering future investment here”


http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/4529f98c-4786 ... z4ED0d0Nx8

If you examine the phrase ‘May become a factor when considering future investment’ you will see this is not actually a blanket statement saying that Siemens will absolutely make no investments or do no business in the UK. To show that there is any contradiction with Siemens’ latest statement, you would have to show a statement made by Siemens saying they would no longer make any investments whatsoever in the UK if there was a leave vote on 23 June.

If you think that a statement by the huge multinational Siemens that does business in nearly every country in the world that they plan to make future investments in the UK means that everything is fine and hunky-dory in Little England, as the Telegraph would like you to think, please do not let me spoil things for you. Go ahead and believe it.
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Re: ALL SCOTTISH PARTIES SAY YES TO VOTE

Postby Londonrake » Tue Jul 12, 2016 5:43 pm

Tim Drayton wrote:
Londonrake wrote:[

Then obviously they are all lying.


They're giving a deliberately distorted version of the truth, yes.


All of them? That sounds a tad "conspiratorial" for a whole gaggle of business article editors, don't you think?

Actually though, no Tim, it's you that's trying (very hard!) to do just that.

The bottom line is ......... you lost. That's a difficult pill to swallow I imagine. For you and the likes of Siemens. There will, I'm certain, be more companies that suddenly decide that "Well. we didn't actually mean what we said at that time." :wink:
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Re: ALL SCOTTISH PARTIES SAY YES TO VOTE

Postby Tim Drayton » Tue Jul 12, 2016 5:45 pm

How about the following story then:

Siemens freezes new UK wind power investment following Brexit vote

https://www.theguardian.com/environment ... rexit-vote

That suggests that Siemens has indeed reappraised on of its investment decisions in the UK following the referendum, although, of course this does not mean that it has abandoned every single one of its planned UK investments, so the statement that Siemens plans to continue to invest in the UK is also true.
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Re: ALL SCOTTISH PARTIES SAY YES TO VOTE

Postby Londonrake » Tue Jul 12, 2016 5:55 pm

Tim Drayton wrote:Well, maybe this helps. I found this from a Financial Times article from yesterday, saying that prior to the referendum Siemens:

told its 14,000 UK employees the higher costs and uncertainties of a British EU exit “could make the UK a less attractive place to do business and may become a factor when Siemens is considering future investment here”


http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/4529f98c-4786 ... z4ED0d0Nx8

If you examine the phrase ‘May become a factor when considering future investment’ you will see this is not actually a blanket statement saying that Siemens will absolutely make no investments or do no business in the UK. To show that there is any contradiction with Siemens’ latest statement, you would have to show a statement made by Siemens saying they would no longer make any investments whatsoever in the UK if there was a leave vote on 23 June.

If you think that a statement by the huge multinational Siemens that does business in nearly every country in the world that they plan to make future investments in the UK means that everything is fine and hunky-dory in Little England, as the Telegraph would like you to think, please do not let me spoil things for you. Go ahead and believe it.


Tim. You're not one of those guys that writes the small print for insurance policies are you? Sorry but - that's a remarkable exercise in obfuscation.

Siemens issued a statement (principally aimed at their employees in Hull) saying that an exit vote would have implications for their investment strategy in the UK. Clearly intended to influence by job security intimidation and add to the general business cacophony for remain. Now the vote has come about they're back tracking. I don't care if they build galaxys for Big G. It cuts no ice. You can find the details in just about every business journal that's covered the story. Unless you are the type that believes Presley did 9/11 they're clearly not all in cahoots to make the Brexiteers look good - as much as you might wish it to be so.
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Re: ALL SCOTTISH PARTIES SAY YES TO VOTE

Postby Londonrake » Tue Jul 12, 2016 7:38 pm

Tim Drayton wrote:How about the following story then:

Siemens freezes new UK wind power investment following Brexit vote

https://www.theguardian.com/environment ... rexit-vote

That suggests that Siemens has indeed reappraised on of its investment decisions in the UK following the referendum, although, of course this does not mean that it has abandoned every single one of its planned UK investments, so the statement that Siemens plans to continue to invest in the UK is also true.


Tim. I can't imagine how upset the staff at the Graun were when the referendum result surfaced. They must have been apoplectic. The paper has always been the most pro-EU in the UK, AFAIK. Anti-Brexit articles were daily de-rigeur a long time before the campaigning had even begun. They've continued with a regular diet of the sort of "You're all going to die!" stuff we have gotten used to in here and on other forums/social media since June 23rd.

So, let me get this straight. You can casually dismiss, with the wave of your hand and a throw-away comment "They're giving a deliberately distorted version of the truth, yes." articles in just about all the respected financial broadsheets and business articles from the other dailies but ................... we are to completely accept the veracity of the Graun on a Brexit story? Yes? I think that's referred to as "confirmation bias".

I appreciate it's getting repetitive but here are some of the main conspirators:

http://news.forexlive.com/!/about-that- ... g-20160711

http://www.proactiveinvestors.co.uk/com ... 28109.html

http://www.cityam.com/245256/germanys-s ... ter-brexit

http://www.bbc.com/news/business-36771595

http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/brexit-impact- ... gs-1570114

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/busin ... 32236.html

http://seekingalpha.com/news/3192617-ft ... t-warnings

http://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/688711 ... investment

However, .............. out there in your "rule by the unelected, Big State" world ........"please do not let me spoil things for you. Go ahead and believe it". Although in my case i think "it" should be plural. Quite a large one actually.
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Re: ALL SCOTTISH PARTIES SAY YES TO VOTE

Postby Tim Drayton » Wed Jul 13, 2016 5:45 am

Londonrake wrote:
Tim Drayton wrote:... we are to completely accept the veracity of the Graun on a Brexit story? Yes? I think that's referred to as "confirmation bias".
...


By all means analyse the article and tell me why it's wrong.

Apart from anything else, the announcement by Siemens was just a piece of public relations blurb and means nothing. For the little Englanders so seize on this as 'proof' that everything is fine and well amounts to clutching at straws. Now, if there were news that Siemens were planning to build a new plant somewhere in the UK, that would be a different matter.
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