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Attacks In Turkey

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Re: Attacks In Turkey

Postby repulsewarrior » Sun Jul 17, 2016 6:56 am

...all for internal consumption it seems to me. No penguins on TV seems curious, no coincidence as it appears, his call to arms deliciously ironic, coming from a cell phone.

This is Erdogan preaching to his mob in the rural areas, beside Gulen, the intellectual, the city dweller, become the threat when looking at this picture; this is where he takes back Gezi so to speak.

...sadly,i don't dare say he arranged his own coup, it is like saying you believe in Aliens; but at this point it would not surprise me.
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Re: Attacks In Turkey

Postby Tim Drayton » Sun Jul 17, 2016 7:30 am

There are various overlapping possibilities. Turkish intelligence has a long history of using agents provocateurs who infiltrate various movements and incite them into staging extreme acts that suit the government. Perhaps they infiltrated the Gulenists in the army and incited them to stage what appears to have been a very poor attempt at a coup. Perhaps they had good intelligence from people embedded among this group that the coup was coming and so the authorities were ready and prepared. Perhaps the whole thing was indeed simply staged. What is for sure is that Erdoğan will use this to push forward his plans to establish a dictatorship. The talk has been for some time of a final push coming to end the last vestiges of judicial independence and it is telling that one of the first reactions to the attempted coup was the suspension of around 2745 judges. No judges had any involvement in the coup attempt as far as I know! I wonder if the Western leaders who all leapt to Erdoğan's defence citing grounds such as support for the rule of law will have any comments on this move, given that the separation of powers and independence of the judiciary are vital for the continuation of the rule of law.
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Re: Attacks In Turkey

Postby miltiades » Sun Jul 17, 2016 7:45 am

The quick suspension of almost 3 thousand judges perhaps indicates that their suspension was premeditated and following the unsuccessful coup it was put into action immediately. Naturally a list of judges was already prepared, perhaps awaiting for a good excuse to suspend them. The West again is showing grave errors of judgement in not even mentioning any valid reasons as to their suspension, they were not part of the failed coup, but they were on the list of unwanted judiciary not conducive to Erdogan's megalomaniac plans of total control of the judiciary paving the way to absolute dictatorship.
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Re: Attacks In Turkey

Postby Tim Drayton » Sun Jul 17, 2016 8:27 am

miltiades wrote:The quick suspension of almost 3 thousand judges perhaps indicates that their suspension was premeditated and following the unsuccessful coup it was put into action immediately. Naturally a list of judges was already prepared, perhaps awaiting for a good excuse to suspend them. The West again is showing grave errors of judgement in not even mentioning any valid reasons as to their suspension, they were not part of the failed coup, but they were on the list of unwanted judiciary not conducive to Erdogan's megalomaniac plans of total control of the judiciary paving the way to absolute dictatorship.


It totally baffles me as to why Western leaders want to see a fanatic Islamist Saudi-style dictatorship in a country that has a foothold in Europe. It is clear that they do.
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Re: Attacks In Turkey

Postby miltiades » Sun Jul 17, 2016 8:49 am

Tim Drayton wrote:
miltiades wrote:The quick suspension of almost 3 thousand judges perhaps indicates that their suspension was premeditated and following the unsuccessful coup it was put into action immediately. Naturally a list of judges was already prepared, perhaps awaiting for a good excuse to suspend them. The West again is showing grave errors of judgement in not even mentioning any valid reasons as to their suspension, they were not part of the failed coup, but they were on the list of unwanted judiciary not conducive to Erdogan's megalomaniac plans of total control of the judiciary paving the way to absolute dictatorship.


It totally baffles me as to why Western leaders want to see a fanatic Islamist Saudi-style dictatorship in a country that has a foothold in Europe. It is clear that they do.

That makes two of us. Western leaders have once again shown total naivety and stupidity in not realizing that Erdogan has plans not the least compatible with the values held in esteem by the west. The suspended judges were on a list of " obstacles" to be eliminated long before the coup. The west refers to its staunch support of the ....democrat ....Erdogan. :lol:
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Re: Attacks In Turkey

Postby Tim Drayton » Sun Jul 17, 2016 9:05 am

The Western ruling elites are backed up with sophisticated intelligence services equipped with advance surveillance techniques and must know far better than you and me what is going on. They must have some sort of grand plan or strategy, but I can't fathom what it is.
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Re: Attacks In Turkey

Postby Schnauzer » Sun Jul 17, 2016 9:13 am

Tim Drayton wrote:The Western ruling elites are backed up with sophisticated intelligence services equipped with advance surveillance techniques and must know far better than you and me what is going on. They must have some sort of grand plan or strategy, but I can't fathom what it is.


Maybe they are paving the way for the 'Black Flag' of Islam to flutter o'er those nations which are in dire need of some religious order. :lol:
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Re: Attacks In Turkey

Postby Tim Drayton » Sun Jul 17, 2016 10:26 am

Those 2745 judges are now reported to be under arrest.
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Re: Attacks In Turkey

Postby Jerry » Sun Jul 17, 2016 10:45 am

Tim Drayton wrote:
miltiades wrote:The quick suspension of almost 3 thousand judges perhaps indicates that their suspension was premeditated and following the unsuccessful coup it was put into action immediately. Naturally a list of judges was already prepared, perhaps awaiting for a good excuse to suspend them. The West again is showing grave errors of judgement in not even mentioning any valid reasons as to their suspension, they were not part of the failed coup, but they were on the list of unwanted judiciary not conducive to Erdogan's megalomaniac plans of total control of the judiciary paving the way to absolute dictatorship.


It totally baffles me as to why Western leaders want to see a fanatic Islamist Saudi-style dictatorship in a country that has a foothold in Europe. It is clear that they do.


The answer is geography. Turkey has the good fortune to be in the right place all the time. The West will hang on to Turkey as long as it can, Turkey will have to become even more fanatically Islamist than Saudi Arabia before the West turns its back. We'll stop licking the Saudi's arse when it runs out of oil. The situation in Cyprus is a prime example of how a NATO ally can get away with murder simply because it is so important to the alliance. Should Turkey fall apart it will be interesting to see how much effort the US would put into the creation of a Kurdish State that would be indebted to its creator.

The conspiracy theory about the failed coup is interesting, according to BBC report this morning Erdogan sent a text message to EVERY mobile phone in Turkey to resist the coup - surely that would have taken some forward planning. Erdogan may temporarily emerge as a the winner of this fiasco but the long term economic consequences, in particular inward investment and a decline in tourism, could yet bite him on the arse and achieve what the coup couldn't.
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Re: Attacks In Turkey

Postby Tim Drayton » Sun Jul 17, 2016 11:57 am

Yes, but the West could have had a pluralistic, democratic, secular Turkey had it wanted this. Instead it has supported the movement to overthrow the secular state over the past 35 years, which may soon achieve its final goals.
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