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Checkmate, Atheists

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Re: Checkmate, Atheists

Postby T_C » Sat Sep 10, 2016 11:57 pm

Atheist wrote:Who is the "God" of that "artificial life in a computer"? More likely the creators of this "software" are more than one. And those that are using the "software" don't even have to be the same as the creators. In fact many different copies of that "artificial life" universe could simultaneously be run on many different computers by different users.

And what would be the purpose of this software? If you create something it is more likely that you create it to serve your needs or the needs of those who use your creation. You don't create an object in order to serve the needs of the created object. So if we were purposely created, then our more likely purpose would be to fulfill some needs of the creators and we are nothing but disposable objects who are being used.

And even if humans were to run some "artificial life in a computer" this wouldn't mean that Humans are immortal and all powerful. A human would have the power to "turn off" a universe running in his computer or affect it in various ways, but he still wouldn't have the power to make himself immortal.

As I wrote in an earlier post, the theists make a lot of baseless assumptions. The "Intelligent Design" is just one baseless assumption. Then they make a lot of other baseless assumptions, like that the creator has to be a single entity, that the creator is also an active "operator" ( a creation can exist apart from its creator), that the creator still exist (a creation can outlive its creators), that this creator cares about each and every one of them on an individual level and that this creator has as a purpose to reward them and serve their needs.

So it is a chain of baseless assumptions because the "Intelligent Design" theory on its own is not enough to serve the psychological needs of the theists.


You seem to have taken my comparison literally and gone off tangent, what I was simply trying to point out was, how the difference between life in the computer and life in the universe would be similar in scale to our differences with any such God, if we were to think of God’s existence as a logical possibility. I’m not going by religious belief but by looking at the universe and thinking if God were to exist - how could the possibility be described from a logical perspective.

To counter your argument with that logic, it would be much more likely that God needn't be born…it's existence and living conditions would not be derived from any truths or any characteristics of existence as found within the universe. God could be immortal and there may be a simple explanation to it’s immortality which makes sense within the reality of it’s own existence but does not translate as any formula that could be understood to anything living in the universe.
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Re: Checkmate, Atheists

Postby T_C » Sun Sep 11, 2016 12:00 am

GreekIslandGirl wrote:
T_C wrote: ... a real creator of the universe would have to be if thinking about it logically.


Thinking like a Greek: :D

ἀεὶ ὁ θεὸς ὁ μέγας γεωμετρεῖ τὸ σύμπαν = 3.1415926 = π

(Always, the great god applies geometry to the universe.)


I do have my moments.. 8)
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Re: Checkmate, Atheists

Postby Paphitis » Sun Sep 11, 2016 1:42 am

Atheist wrote:
GreekIslandGirl wrote:
Atheist wrote: ... You don't create an object in order to serve the needs of the created object...


Excuse me, but mothers do this all the time.


That is an instinct that serves the species.

One of the views I am challenging is the view that if there is a "creator" that this creator must necessarily be like a father (or mother) to us, like most theists imagine this "creator" to be.

In order for theists to have their dreams fulfilled there needs to be a creator (no proof), the creator must still exist (no proof), the creator must be in control of the creation (no proof), the creator must care deeply about some insignificant elements of the creation (no proof), and the creator must be able and willing to serve humans in the way that some humans dream about (no proof) . Those are a lot of baseless assumptions that a theist needs to make and there is nothing to support any of them apart from wishful thinking and fairy tales.


Don't forget they keep telling us that we must believe and not delve or ask questions. Just accept their wishful thinking and wet dreams for a life everlasting.

Of course, you're probably right. If there is a creator, then chances are it would not give 2 hoots about humanity and chances are it wouldn't serve us or be the slightest bit interested.

Now just imagine there is a superior intelligent life form somewhere in the multiverse (Aliens of the Star Wars variety). Why would the creator care about us and not them?

I think people are just too scare scared of death, and throughout humanity we need to make things up to make us feel better.
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Re: Checkmate, Atheists

Postby Paphitis » Sun Sep 11, 2016 1:52 am

Get Real! wrote:
Atheist wrote:One of the views I am challenging is the view that if there is a "creator" that this creator must necessarily be like a father (or mother) to us, like most theists imagine this "creator" to be.

In order for theists to have their dreams fulfilled there needs to be a creator (no proof), the creator must still exist (no proof), the creator must be in control of the creation (no proof), the creator must care deeply about some insignificant elements of the creation (no proof), and the creator must be able and willing to serve humans in the way that some humans dream about (no proof) . Those are a lot of baseless assumptions that a theist needs to make and there is nothing to support any of them apart from wishful thinking and fairy tales.

Denying the existence of a creator is denying the existence of the universe itself because you can’t have the latter without the former! <-- Now tap into your common sense if you can find it, to understand this fundamental FACT.

Therefore, your so called “challenge” is nothing but hollow baloney from a spoiled child! That's how you come across to me.

You haven't provided a shred of evidence that (1) the universe doesn't exist, and if it does exist then you haven't provided a shred of evidence that (2) the universe was "self-manufactured" out of thin air!

To sum it up your posts don't present this forum with *any* challenges other than expressing your obvious hatred of theists. :)

That you’re a hater is a given, that you can debate this subject is not even debatable… it’s a FAIL.


Atheists don't deny anything or make such claims. Usually it's believers who make absolutist claims about the existence of a creator and they do it with absolutely zero evidence.

It's usually the uneducated who have blind faith as well.

The rest, including yourself, only pretend to believe in a creator and desperately want to believe because that is what mommy told them, and that there is a purpose and that this creator actually gives a shit about you and will construct this Paradise somewhere where you can enjoy life everlasting.

But dig deep and you will see, that you're just another Atheist. You just don't want to accept it! You're just confused and more than a little scared. :D

In the end, you can believe what you want. But let's not get ridiculous about things and say the universe is evidence of the existence of a creator because that is not the case. If it were that simple, then Milti is absolutely right in thinking that wars such as the one in Syria, cancer, earthquakes, malaria is more than enough evidence to suggest there is no such thing as a supreme being because effectively both of you are using the same logic. Too simple. But that is what humans do. they oversimplify things in order to reach some kind of understanding and fill the gaps.
Last edited by Paphitis on Sun Sep 11, 2016 2:34 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Checkmate, Atheists

Postby Paphitis » Sun Sep 11, 2016 1:57 am

Get Real! wrote:
Atheist wrote:
Get Real! wrote:
Lordo wrote:fact 3 at this point it the actual mechanism of how it started has not been proved experimentally but i have no doubt we shall do it sooner or later or even later than that.

King of IDIOTS, if and when you find that "mechanism" you'll then have to give it a LABEL (a name) right?

Well, feel free to use the three letter word... :lol:

I rest my case!


The "mechanism of how it started" doesn't have to involve a decision taken by something with a mind, neither that initial "mechanism" needs to be in control of everything that happened ever since (let alone to care about the lives of some insignificant organisms in some little corner of the universe)

I have already explained the difference between pantheism (the "scientific" God) and theism (the personal God) so I'm not gonna go over that again.


Oh yes of course, and humanity is able to give this creator a label in order to fit in with their own wishful thinking. Seriously, if this creator does exist, it would be so offended that germs like us would even see fit to be thinking of it and that somehow it is here slaving away to build universes for our existence. :lol:

That's a new one mate.
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Re: Checkmate, Atheists

Postby Atheist » Sun Sep 11, 2016 2:23 am

Paphitis wrote:I think people are just too scare scared of death, and throughout humanity we need to make things up to make us feel better.


I agree. I believe that is the main reason. The other reason is that humans need to have "an explanation" for everything. You can imagine several thousand years ago when people experienced phenomena such as a solar eclipse, or an earthquake, or even lightning but they didn't have the knowledge to scientifically explain those phenomena so they would use "Gods" and "magic" to give "an explanation". People continue to do that today with whatever our science can't yet explain (or even things that science can explain, but they can't understand). These are lets say the "psychological" reasons why people believe in a "God".

There are also some "sociological" reasons. As the saying goes "religion is the opiate of the masses". The elites have exploited the above psychological needs and created organized religions that add rules along with rewards and punishments to keep the masses under control. After many centuries of organized religion people are now born into societies where the existence of "God" is taken for granted and they are brainwashed to accept that there is a "God" from the first years of their lives. Religion is also part of their culture and for some their daily life. It is difficult for these people to even consider anything else, especially when the alternative doesn't offer any benefits compared to their blissful ignorance.
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Re: Checkmate, Atheists

Postby repulsewarrior » Sun Sep 11, 2016 2:33 am

...do (can) Atheists believe in flying saucers?
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Re: Checkmate, Atheists

Postby Paphitis » Sun Sep 11, 2016 2:40 am

repulsewarrior wrote:...do (can) Atheists believe in flying saucers?


You mean in another intelligent life form?

Yes absolutely they do.

There are thousands of scientists working tirelessly around the globe searching for organic life forms right now to prove that primitive life exists on other planets. NASA has entire future missions planned which will be looking to see if there is life on Mars. They believe there is.

Life on other planets is almost a certainty.

They also believe in the possibility of other intelligent life forms as well. The universe is far too vast to discount these theories. So many Billions of Stars, Galaxies, and planets which we haven't even discovered. We haven't even scratched the surface.
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Re: Checkmate, Atheists

Postby Get Real! » Sun Sep 11, 2016 2:41 am

Paphitis wrote:
Get Real! wrote:I have already explained the difference between pantheism (the "scientific" God) and theism (the personal God) so I'm not gonna go over that again.

Oh yes of course, and humanity is able to give this creator a label in order to fit in with their own wishful thinking. Seriously, if this creator does exist, it would be so offended that germs like us would even see fit to be thinking of it and that somehow it is here slaving away to build universes for our existence. :lol:

That's a new one mate.

Welcome back O’ shallow one… let me be the first to inform that during your absence nobody remembered or missed you and I need not explain why! :lol:
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Re: Checkmate, Atheists

Postby Get Real! » Sun Sep 11, 2016 2:46 am

Atheist wrote:There are also some "sociological" reasons.

Forget the baloney... just give it up!

The notion of GOD was borne not out of psychological or social reasons but because... the universe was THERE!

What will it take to get this through your thick head?
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