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Russia bomb UN AID Convoy

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Re: Russia bomb UN AID Convoy

Postby Tim Drayton » Mon Sep 26, 2016 4:36 pm

Robin Hood wrote:
Tim Drayton wrote:Religions are very flexible - that, in my opinion, is the main reason they are so full of contradictions.


Any form of legislation, which religion is, is flexible. In Islam they have special scholars to interpret the word! Why do you think lawyers are so rich? You need them to interpret the laws ..... that lawyers drew up in the first place! You need priests to interpret the religious words of their God ........ that some priest claims he got straight from his God and wrote them down thousands of years ago. :roll:

Is it any wonder the World is up to its eyeballs in conflict? :(


Just try on any issue looking for hadith, i.e. the sayings about the life and doings of the prophet and his early followers that are invoked to fill the gaps in matters for which Allah did not see fit to make direct provision in the Quaran, i.e. just about everything, and you will see that they are so riddled with contradiction that you can virtually find a hadith to support anything. And of course, this is the basic function of religion. It is an ideological smoke screen to support whatever a ruler wants to do. And lo and behold - you can conjure up a hadith to justify just about anything. Why do you think religions are so fond of having religious texts in so-called sacred languages (know to the priests alone) and so strongly resist having them written in vernacular languages? There are so many hadith about slavery that one would have to conclude that slavery is a sanctioned institution in Shariah law, yet almost all Islamic countries are signatories to anti-slavery conventions. Never mind, interpretation comes to the rescue and there are said to be so many hadith about releasing slaves from slavery that Islam can be said to be an anti-slavery religion after all!
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Re: Russia bomb UN AID Convoy

Postby Robin Hood » Mon Sep 26, 2016 4:49 pm

Tim Drayton wrote:
Robin Hood wrote:
Maximus wrote:
Then we shall see the Syrians chose who THEY want to govern their country.


No, the Assad dynasty, which has been in power for 46 years, will continue its totalitarian rule. It is not hard to hold staged elections in a totalitarian state.


Iraq, Libya and Syria are, or were, totalitarian States to one degree or another. Each had a very high standard of living and more freedom than most countries in the region. These regimes needs to keep the hot-heads in check; they need to know where the line is drawn and the consequences of crossing it. An unruly class needs a tough teacher!

But totalitarian or not, I would bet that if the population of those countries were given a free and fair vote now to return to the life they had before they got ‘freedom’ or to stay with the life they have now under US style law and order, it would be a 95%+ vote for the old days. The only people that would vote for the status quo would be the idiots that created the uproar in the first place.

You surprise me! You are given a free vote on leaving the EU; you lost the vote but have spent the time since complaining that the democratic majority are all dumb Northerners, the illiterate, little Englanders, Pensioners or just simply morons. If you want a flexible interpretations of democracy ...... go for a totalitarian regime as they will tell you how to think. :roll: :wink:
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Re: Russia bomb UN AID Convoy

Postby Tim Drayton » Mon Sep 26, 2016 4:59 pm

Robin Hood wrote:... but have spent the time since complaining that the democratic majority are all dumb Northerners, the illiterate, little Englanders, Pensioners or just simply morons.


But that is democracy. You are allowed to criticise the result.
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Re: Russia bomb UN AID Convoy

Postby Tim Drayton » Mon Sep 26, 2016 5:17 pm

It is said that the Islam practised in Indonesia is heavily infiltrated with elements of the belief systems that existed there for millenia prior to the advent of that religion there, and it is supposedly a very moderate, tolerant version. Even in the Arabian Gulf, the place from which Islam first spread - from my limited understanding of the local people there - beliefs that to my mind contradict the teachings of Judaism, of which Christianity and Islam are offshoots, in things like ghosts and magic seem to prevail. I mean, dead souls are not supposed to be resurrected until judgement day so there surely cannot be ghosts, yet in my personal experience the belief in ghosts is widespread and tolerated in Qatar. In the Republic of Turkey, the officially sanctioned brand of Sunni Islam propagated by the Ministry of Religious Affairs there sits perfectly comfortably with the secular constitutional order involving an elected parliament and parliamentary government, and a system of law modelled on continental European law. The degree to which that constitutional order has genuinely functioned at various times in the country may be debatable, but government-sancioned legal scholars there have managed to create an interpretation of Islam that underpins the prevailing order. While in the Gulf, that same order is widely considered to be sacrilegious. On the other hand, apart from Saudi Arabia, even the other Gulf countries have progressed along the path of codification especially in the area of commercial law. How is that compatible with Shariah law? I would say that Islam is as flexible as any other religion.
As to Christianity, we saw the Church force Gallileo under threat of torture to abandon his belief in the Copernican world view, because the Church at the time considered this a threat to the main pillars underlying its ideology and thus its political power. Yet, we can witness Christians nowadays marshalling the Copernican world view and the modern scientific view of the cosmos and advancing this as proof of the existence of God! Religion by its nature is flexible and serves whatever purpose is needed.
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Re: Russia bomb UN AID Convoy

Postby Tim Drayton » Mon Sep 26, 2016 5:20 pm

PS - I have never said anything about Northerners in connction with the EU referendum result.
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Re: Russia bomb UN AID Convoy

Postby Tim Drayton » Mon Sep 26, 2016 5:22 pm

There is another problem with using Islam to justify Assad's dictatorship in that the Assads are Alawite, and while they consider themselves to be members of an Islamic sect, I think you will find the majority of other Muslims consider the Alawites to be apostates.
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Re: Russia bomb UN AID Convoy

Postby Tim Drayton » Mon Sep 26, 2016 5:35 pm

Saudi women file petition to end male guardianship system
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-37469860

Even in Saudi Arabia, people can contemplate changes to the accepted order, even if everything is deemed to have been prescribed from above there. I am sure some religious expert could come up with an interpretation in support of this change, if so needed.
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Re: Russia bomb UN AID Convoy

Postby Robin Hood » Mon Sep 26, 2016 6:51 pm

Tim Drayton wrote:
Robin Hood wrote:... but have spent the time since complaining that the democratic majority are all dumb Northerners, the illiterate, little Englanders, Pensioners or just simply morons.


But that is democracy. You are allowed to criticise the result.


But why do the other side always have to be the stupid ones? :roll:
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Re: Russia bomb UN AID Convoy

Postby Robin Hood » Mon Sep 26, 2016 7:12 pm

Tim Drayton wrote:
Robin Hood wrote:
Tim Drayton wrote:Religions are very flexible - that, in my opinion, is the main reason they are so full of contradictions.


Any form of legislation, which religion is, is flexible. In Islam they have special scholars to interpret the word! Why do you think lawyers are so rich? You need them to interpret the laws ..... that lawyers drew up in the first place! You need priests to interpret the religious words of their God ........ that some priest claims he got straight from his God and wrote them down thousands of years ago. :roll:

Is it any wonder the World is up to its eyeballs in conflict? :(


Just try on any issue looking for hadith, i.e. the sayings about the life and doings of the prophet and his early followers that are invoked to fill the gaps in matters for which Allah did not see fit to make direct provision in the Quaran, i.e. just about everything, and you will see that they are so riddled with contradiction that you can virtually find a hadith to support anything. And of course, this is the basic function of religion. It is an ideological smoke screen to support whatever a ruler wants to do. And lo and behold - you can conjure up a hadith to justify just about anything. Why do you think religions are so fond of having religious texts in so-called sacred languages (know to the priests alone) and so strongly resist having them written in vernacular languages? There are so many hadith about slavery that one would have to conclude that slavery is a sanctioned institution in Shariah law, yet almost all Islamic countries are signatories to anti-slavery conventions. Never mind, interpretation comes to the rescue and there are said to be so many hadith about releasing slaves from slavery that Islam can be said to be an anti-slavery religion after all!


I agree with you and that is why I told my parents at the age of 7, that I did not believe in GOD! Caused a bit of a rumpus because I was attending a Church School! It was the 'Holier than thou' brigade which made my mind up. :shock: :roll:
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Re: Russia bomb UN AID Convoy

Postby Robin Hood » Mon Sep 26, 2016 7:18 pm

Tim Drayton wrote:PS - I have never said anything about Northerners in connection with the EU referendum result.


I apologise. Anyway four out of five right's not a bad result! :roll: :D
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