Cyprus-Forum.com

[repulsewarrior]

Greece's economic problems had nothing to do with the EU any more that Cyprus' economy.

Down to corruption, nepotism and greed.

there is all the above plus an unbalanced economy and reluctance by rich people to pay their taxes.

...a 'like' button i would have selected, (again).

[Paphitis]

The first footsteps of fascism:



The courts are supposed to rule in line with the law, not a referendum result.

Actually, a referendum is the voice of the people, and that by far exceeds the power of Parliament, otherwise, our democracy has just been cheapened and placed in the hands of 650 MPs alone, who only remember to suck up for votes every few years and then forget about their electors.

Fascism only rises when their is natural injustice. You don;t see it raise its head when times are good, only when times are bad. That's because people are getting ANGRY!

Ignore them at your own peril! The Tea Parties will only get bigger and stronger.

[Paphitis]

BTW, here is an interesting statistic, and a sad one.

just the other day, Greece commemorated its OCHI Day. this was the day the Metaxas government said NO to Mussolini and effectively led to war with Italy and Germany.

During the war with italy, Greece lost 6500 soldiers in northern Greece fighting off the Italian Invasion and had pushed them back into Albania.

Greece has lost more males due to the financial crisis and austerity since 2012. Over 10,000 suicides due to the Financial crisis.

But the EU don't care!

That is where I base my judgement and my anti EU stance.

If there is no dignity and respect for countries like Greece, and bear in mind the fact that tomorrow it will be other countries facing the same issues, then the EU deserves no respect from me.

i'm not for sale Tim! I will even support Golden dawn if I have to if this is going to be the party that is going to be fighting for the underdog! I do not support fascism, but much better having them in power than a bunch of sellouts who are trampling on all the dead victims without even remembering as if they don't exist anymore.

The EU has cost Greece more lives than the offensive against the Italian Military in WW2. mind boggling!

Yes, we know that. It is all about Greece for you and you know and care little to nothing about the UK.

But, hold on ... you were saying in another thread that people of Greek heritage in Australia do really well there yet people back in Greece don't achieve the same success because of their wrong mindset. They all expect handouts from the state rather than getting of their backsides and doing something is what you appeared to be saying. If that is so, perhaps the EU is not at the root of the problem and, indeed, perhaps a good kick up the behind is what the place really needs.

No not just about Greece. it's about every country, especially all those in the EU, because they just got a preview of what awaits them should they ever fall into similar economic circumstances like Greece. that will be the case for most EU countries but you can bet your house that the rules will change if it was either Germany, France, Britain, Italy or Spain.

Nations need to take drastic steps now to protect themselves. No country is immune to Financial collapse, not even Germany, who are sitting on a mountain of debt.

the richer you are, the more debt you have.

Yes Greeks in Australia do fairly well. In Greece not so well. There are fundamental issues with Greece which i hope they can sort out very quickly.

but Greece never faced any of the issues it now faces with the Drachma. it was a beautiful currency as well, purely Greek not foreign.

[Paphitis]

its pointless talking to bafidi he is cluless. the greek problem is very simple. have a look at how many people work in greece and also have alook at how many people are civilservants, unemplyed or retired. you will find the numbers are about 1 worker to one who does not work or is a civil servant. add to that the fact that people are allowed to retire at the age of 50 and you begin to realise the enormity of the problem.

unless the underlying problems are resolved the problem will not go away.

You idiot! That is what I have always been saying. Greece is this kind of country, and under the Drachma, they could continue to be that even though I would prefer them to be more sustainable.

And even right now, Greece can't afford to sack a big chunk of the public sector, because that just adds to the unemployment heap with more people with no chance of finding a job in the private sector. Economy will just collapse again.

it has to be a slow transformation. Can't shock the economy any more because it will not bring good results.

[Paphitis]

Greece's economic problems had nothing to do with the EU any more that Cyprus' economy.

Down to corruption, nepotism and greed.

That's fd@king nonsense!

yes Greece is bloody corrupt but it isn't the most corrupt country in Europe either. And corruption never causes an economic collapse that I know of.

it is however something that can be conveniently addressed by Government.

The UK is not immune to facing the same fate as Greece one day. look at your debt! if and when it happens, then you better hope to be out of the EU for your own sake.

In fact Britain is the luckiest country in the EU, so they might be ok.

[Paphitis]

Greece's economic problems had nothing to do with the EU any more that Cyprus' economy.

Down to corruption, nepotism and greed.

there is all the above plus an unbalanced economy and reluctance by rich people to pay their taxes.

Rich people avoid tax in every country. Geez, but if you were well off and didn't engage the services of an accountant and structure yourself in Trusts, companies, and other entities, then you're friggin STOOPID!

it's like Kerry packer once said: "If you don't minimize your tax; then you're Stupid"

I like packer. He was my favorite billionaire. A Great man!

Even trump said it well when he answered one of Hillary's question in the debate about paying no tax.

TRUMP said: "I paid no tax because I am smart"

If anything, that is actually a straight out honest answer and this answer impressed me because Trump just came out and said it. He admitted he paid no tax, like any smart individual would. Most politicians would have been chasing their tales trying to spin a story.

[Paphitis]

Another salient point is that no country anywhere took the kind of hammering that Cyprus did in its bailout deal. Yet, here we are three years down the road and Cyprus has exited the programme ahead of time and without drawing on the full amount allotted to it. It is early days, and the tourism bonanza caused by cheaper rival destinations being made unsafe by the risk of terorrism is obviously giving a huge boost to the economy but cannot be relied on to continue indefinately, but signs of economic growth are returning. There is a huge uphill road ahead, of course. I agree that many ordinary people in Greece are suffering, but I don't think you can lay all of the blame at the EU's door. I don't know much about Greece, but there appears to be something fundamentally disfunctional about that place. Yet, the paradox is that Greeks flourish when they emigrate.

It's also a tiny country.

it's much easier too. Greece has critical mass, but Cyprus doesn't.

Greece has its problems. there are few opportunities and a bloated Public service. if you want to have this kind of economy, then Greece would have been better off with the Drachma, because it could sustain it more.

I don't however endorse such an economy to be in any way sustainable long term or a good way to go. Greeks got lazy because they government would lay everything on a plate for them, job included. Closest form of Socialism.

In Australia, Greeks started to migrate in the 1940s, 1950s and 1960s. they came to a new country like Australia and America too, in order to work. That is what they did. They were hard workers and very frugal. They wanted a better life for their families and to give their children a top education so that they children didn't have to do what they had to.

They succeeded by buying properties and opening little shops, cafes, takeaways and restaurants.

Now, the second, third, and forth generation all live in the leafy suburbs, and every Greek household has at least 1 very upmarket car. The parents, use to drive beat up kingswoods.

Oh and as for tax evasion or minimization. well, Greek families in Australia usually have at least 1 trust company and an accountant.

Fuck, I can tell you that I have 2 trusts and 3 PTY's. WHY? Reduce tax, and to distribute debt and risk as well as income. Everyone does it. You stupid if you don't. it's called protecting yourself as well. I point towards my mate Kerry Packer and Trump.

Let's not go all stupid about greeks not paying their tax. it's a pretty unfair accusation.

[Paphitis]

Another salient point is that no country anywhere took the kind of hammering that Cyprus did in its bailout deal. Yet, here we are three years down the road and Cyprus has exited the programme ahead of time and without drawing on the full amount allotted to it. It is early days, and the tourism bonanza caused by cheaper rival destinations being made unsafe by the risk of terorrism is obviously giving a huge boost to the economy but cannot be relied on to continue indefinately, but signs of economic growth are returning. There is a huge uphill road ahead, of course. I agree that many ordinary people in Greece are suffering, but I don't think you can lay all of the blame at the EU's door. I don't know much about Greece, but there appears to be something fundamentally disfunctional about that place. Yet, the paradox is that Greeks flourish when they emigrate.

Greece also flourished before they decided, or were made, to adopt the Euro as their currency! The same with Cyprus. The poison chalice appears to be adopting the Euro unless you are a high income industrial economy i.e. Germany.

you obviously have no idea regarding the problems greece has.

neither do you!

Public service is the only thing keeping Greece alive at the moment.

[Paphitis]

Another salient point is that no country anywhere took the kind of hammering that Cyprus did in its bailout deal. Yet, here we are three years down the road and Cyprus has exited the programme ahead of time and without drawing on the full amount allotted to it. It is early days, and the tourism bonanza caused by cheaper rival destinations being made unsafe by the risk of terorrism is obviously giving a huge boost to the economy but cannot be relied on to continue indefinately, but signs of economic growth are returning. There is a huge uphill road ahead, of course. I agree that many ordinary people in Greece are suffering, but I don't think you can lay all of the blame at the EU's door. I don't know much about Greece, but there appears to be something fundamentally disfunctional about that place. Yet, the paradox is that Greeks flourish when they emigrate.

Greece also flourished before they decided, or were made, to adopt the Euro as their currency! The same with Cyprus. The poison chalice appears to be adopting the Euro unless you are a high income industrial economy i.e. Germany.

you obviously have no idea regarding the problems greece has.

But these 'problems' have been endemic in the Greek and Cypriot culture/society for decades, it's a way of life. They don't like rules, they don't like taxes, little brown envelopes are a way of life and both countries are controlled by a small number of Elites ........ but in spite of that they were both thriving, healthy economies until they adopted the Euro as a currency. That is a simple fact of life.

No one likes taxes! do you like them? I doubt it.

Greece has an interesting mindset where everyone expects their "entitlement' from the Government. now, how this mindset came to be, I have no clue. it could be the government's fault. Greece has had a long history of corrupt populist Governments wallowing in immense corruption and seediness. It's basically a South American tin pot in the EU. that is the cold harsh reality of it.

But all this can change, it just takes time. and a lot of Greeks are going to be very angry over the changes as well.

[Paphitis]

It looks as though May will have a difficult time ahead although she displays the arrogance that she does. We have a parliament and the parliament has a role to play, and it will.

I don't see her as arrogant. She's playing the cards she's been dealt.

Yes, we have a parliament. But the House did something extremely rare in U.K. Politics. They voted 6 to 1 (544) to throw a matter open to the entire national electorate. Should Britain remain a member of the EU: Yes or No? In doing so they effectively relinquished their right to subsequently decide upon the outcome and certainly shouldn't have any truck with attempts to play silly games because some, who feel that they know best, didn't get the "right" answer. Now, that's arrogance for you.

Yes, Parliament had their role, they asked us what we wanted. We voted for leaving the EU. They are there to implement the will of the people (aka democracy). So just bloody well get on with delivering it. If they don't (and personally I'm of the certain belief that they know this) there will be Hell to pay.

I agree with this 100%