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Theresa May's declaration.

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Re: Theresa May's declaration.

Postby Tim Drayton » Wed Oct 12, 2016 9:56 am

Paphitis wrote:
She can't make it any clearly than this:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/08 ... mmons-vot/

not even a parliamentary vote will be called and according to Constitutional Lawyers, there is no requirement for one as the people have voted.


Well, what do you know? May has done a U-turn and there will now be a parliamentary debate on the matter. Harold Wilson said a week was a long time in politics. It looks like a day is a long time, too.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... parliament
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Re: Theresa May's declaration.

Postby Paphitis » Wed Oct 12, 2016 9:59 am

Tim Drayton wrote:Raoul Ruparel says with reference to in-depth research conducted by his thinktank, Open Europe:

“What we found is that, in the long run (up to 2030), there will be a permanent cost to leaving the customs union. This cost is around 1% to 1.2% GDP.”

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... on-uk-25bn

Never mind, that’s obviously just more moaning by the remainers! But it’s not. Raoul Ruparel has been hired by David Davis, Secretary of State for Exiting the European Union, to provide expertise on the process of leaving the EU.


And how did they come up with that?

Where are their calculations? There are none because they don't have a clue. Their calculations are based on assumptions. Did they assume there would be no FTA with the EU, and if so, also no FTA with America and other countries? What are their variables and assumptions?

But let's say it is true. 1% to 1.2% is not much especially if its over a 24 year period.

This is just agenda driven anti BREXIT scare mongering journalism. The journo got up and decided or was instructed to find any so called analysis material that paints the BREXIT in bad light. so they came across this "think tank" which could also be agenda driven by a foreign Government like the USA for instance.

Bottom line is this. We won't know for sure until after BREXIT. I do have a gut feeling though, that Britain will have the best of both worlds. they will have the FTA other EU members have without the extra baggage or compliance with all the EU nonsense.
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Re: Theresa May's declaration.

Postby Paphitis » Wed Oct 12, 2016 10:04 am

Tim Drayton wrote:
Paphitis wrote:
She can't make it any clearly than this:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/08 ... mmons-vot/

not even a parliamentary vote will be called and according to Constitutional Lawyers, there is no requirement for one as the people have voted.


Well, what do you know? May has done a U-turn and there will now be a parliamentary debate on the matter. Harold Wilson said a week was a long time in politics. It looks like a day is a long time, too.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... parliament


They can debate all they like, but she already has the mandate provided to her by the people to trigger Article 50.

Sure she will be transparent. She was transparent when she provided a road-map to triggering the BREXIT by March next year.

You can't just give the people a referendum and then just decide not to trigger Article 50 because the parliament doesn't like it, or because you or anyone else doesn't like it. One would presume that had the BREXITERs lost, you would be lauding the result but apparently not now as they had won!

Sorry, but no cigar! Doesn't make sense. it is also unfair and disrespectful to millions of voters.

Might as well have a dictatorship because then we would know that referendums mean nothing, and neither the will of the popular vote.
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Re: Theresa May's declaration.

Postby miltiades » Wed Oct 12, 2016 10:16 am

Paphitis wrote:
Tim Drayton wrote:
Paphitis wrote:
She can't make it any clearly than this:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/08 ... mmons-vot/

not even a parliamentary vote will be called and according to Constitutional Lawyers, there is no requirement for one as the people have voted.


Well, what do you know? May has done a U-turn and there will now be a parliamentary debate on the matter. Harold Wilson said a week was a long time in politics. It looks like a day is a long time, too.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... parliament


They can debate all they like, but she already has the mandate provided to her by the people to trigger Article 50.

Sure she will be transparent. She was transparent when she provided a road-map to triggering the BREXIT by March next year.

You can't just give the people a referendum and then just decide not to trigger Article 50 because the parliament doesn't like it, or because you or anyone else doesn't like it. One would presume that had the BREXITERs lost, you would be lauding the result but apparently not now as they had won!

Sorry, but no cigar! Doesn't make sense. it is also unfair and disrespectful to millions of voters.

Might as well have a dictatorship because then we would know that referendums mean nothing, and neither the will of the popular vote.

This explains the slight improvement of Stg overnight.
Parliament IS the supreme body , not the PM. If it came to a vote on repealing the accession act of 1972 then is ...goodbye Brexit !
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Re: Theresa May's declaration.

Postby Tim Drayton » Wed Oct 12, 2016 10:23 am

Paphitis wrote:
Tim Drayton wrote:Raoul Ruparel says with reference to in-depth research conducted by his thinktank, Open Europe:

“What we found is that, in the long run (up to 2030), there will be a permanent cost to leaving the customs union. This cost is around 1% to 1.2% GDP.”

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... on-uk-25bn

Never mind, that’s obviously just more moaning by the remainers! But it’s not. Raoul Ruparel has been hired by David Davis, Secretary of State for Exiting the European Union, to provide expertise on the process of leaving the EU.


And how did they come up with that?

Where are their calculations? There are none because they don't have a clue. Their calculations are based on assumptions. Did they assume there would be no FTA with the EU, and if so, also no FTA with America and other countries? What are their variables and assumptions?

But let's say it is true. 1% to 1.2% is not much especially if its over a 24 year period.

This is just agenda driven anti BREXIT scare mongering journalism. The journo got up and decided or was instructed to find any so called analysis material that paints the BREXIT in bad light. so they came across this "think tank" which could also be agenda driven by a foreign Government like the USA for instance.

Bottom line is this. We won't know for sure until after BREXIT. I do have a gut feeling though, that Britain will have the best of both worlds. they will have the FTA other EU members have without the extra baggage or compliance with all the EU nonsense.


The overwhelming consensus view among economists is that leaving the EU will be disastrous for the UK. You can call it moaning, or project fear, or what you wish but it is all a smoke screen for the intellectual bankruptcy of the leave camp that cannot produce any coherent arguments as to the supposed benefits of leaving - because they don't exist. OK, in your case it is just one in the eye for the EU and you are glad because you see it as being retribution for the hard deal the EU imposed on Greece, and you are also eying up the possibility of moving in and making a killing when things hit rock bottom and profiting from the self-inflicted (albeit by a narrow majority) misery of the British people. You don't care about the fate of the UK - and why should you? In fact, this is the opinion of the man that David Davis, Secretary of State for Exiting the European Union, has just appointed as an advisor.
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Re: Theresa May's declaration.

Postby Tim Drayton » Wed Oct 12, 2016 10:28 am

miltiades wrote:
Paphitis wrote:
Tim Drayton wrote:
Paphitis wrote:
She can't make it any clearly than this:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/08 ... mmons-vot/

not even a parliamentary vote will be called and according to Constitutional Lawyers, there is no requirement for one as the people have voted.


Well, what do you know? May has done a U-turn and there will now be a parliamentary debate on the matter. Harold Wilson said a week was a long time in politics. It looks like a day is a long time, too.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... parliament


They can debate all they like, but she already has the mandate provided to her by the people to trigger Article 50.

Sure she will be transparent. She was transparent when she provided a road-map to triggering the BREXIT by March next year.

You can't just give the people a referendum and then just decide not to trigger Article 50 because the parliament doesn't like it, or because you or anyone else doesn't like it. One would presume that had the BREXITERs lost, you would be lauding the result but apparently not now as they had won!

Sorry, but no cigar! Doesn't make sense. it is also unfair and disrespectful to millions of voters.

Might as well have a dictatorship because then we would know that referendums mean nothing, and neither the will of the popular vote.

This explains the slight improvement of Stg overnight.
Parliament IS the supreme body , not the PM. If it came to a vote on repealing the accession act of 1972 then is ...goodbye Brexit !


Indeed, it was a 1% jump, quite significant in the currency markets. As a commentator in the financial slot on the BBC's Today radio programme commented this morning, it is speculation over whether there will be a hard or soft Brexit, or none at all, that is driving speculation in Sterling and every time the possibility of a hard Brexit, which will be bad for the UK economy, increases Sterling falls and it moves in the opposite direction when such a possibility recedes.
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Re: Theresa May's declaration.

Postby Paphitis » Wed Oct 12, 2016 10:34 am

Tim Drayton wrote:
Paphitis wrote:
Tim Drayton wrote:Raoul Ruparel says with reference to in-depth research conducted by his thinktank, Open Europe:

“What we found is that, in the long run (up to 2030), there will be a permanent cost to leaving the customs union. This cost is around 1% to 1.2% GDP.”

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... on-uk-25bn

Never mind, that’s obviously just more moaning by the remainers! But it’s not. Raoul Ruparel has been hired by David Davis, Secretary of State for Exiting the European Union, to provide expertise on the process of leaving the EU.


And how did they come up with that?

Where are their calculations? There are none because they don't have a clue. Their calculations are based on assumptions. Did they assume there would be no FTA with the EU, and if so, also no FTA with America and other countries? What are their variables and assumptions?

But let's say it is true. 1% to 1.2% is not much especially if its over a 24 year period.

This is just agenda driven anti BREXIT scare mongering journalism. The journo got up and decided or was instructed to find any so called analysis material that paints the BREXIT in bad light. so they came across this "think tank" which could also be agenda driven by a foreign Government like the USA for instance.

Bottom line is this. We won't know for sure until after BREXIT. I do have a gut feeling though, that Britain will have the best of both worlds. they will have the FTA other EU members have without the extra baggage or compliance with all the EU nonsense.


The overwhelming consensus view among economists is that leaving the EU will be disastrous for the UK. You can call it moaning, or project fear, or what you wish but it is all a smoke screen for the intellectual bankruptcy of the leave camp that cannot produce any coherent arguments as to the supposed benefits of leaving - because they don't exist. OK, in your case it is just one in the eye for the EU and you are glad because you see it as being retribution for the hard deal the EU imposed on Greece, and you are also eying up the possibility of moving in and making a killing when things hit rock bottom and profiting from the self-inflicted (albeit by a narrow majority) misery of the British people. You don't care about the fate of the UK - and why should you? In fact, this is the opinion of the man that David Davis, Secretary of State for Exiting the European Union, has just appointed as an advisor.


The consensus view is it? i bet I can find you many economists who would disagree with this.

But, finding economists that think it will be disastrous is easy because they are only looking after their own self interests. like Obama was when he literally bullshitted and fed the British people some additional scaremongering to fend off BREXIT.

But since the vote, we hear the USA has done a backflip and clearly state they would sign a FTA with Britain - presuming Clinton wins of course and not Trump.

I also see it is beneficial for Britain. honestly, if I had the misfortune of raising my family in London and a Briton with a family, I would vote for BREXIT because the attitude of Juncker and the rest of the EU clowns is something I don't like. I don't like big interfering Government either, making a rule and regulation for everything turning us all into a super Nanny State like we are all fuckwits.

But one of the biggest kickers for Britain is this. It is a good country, with one of the best social welfare systems on the planet, great education facilities, NHS and very high living standards. The brits now want to control their borders and they can virtually go into lock down Australia style. They can even have detention Centres to house all illegal immigrants before deportation. Who is going to tell them naughty brits off? The EU or the UN? :lol: :lol: :lol:

fact of the matter is this. If the Brits want to maintain their high living standards, then I'm afraid they are not going to be able to do it in the EU.
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Re: Theresa May's declaration.

Postby Paphitis » Wed Oct 12, 2016 10:38 am

miltiades wrote:
Paphitis wrote:
Tim Drayton wrote:
Paphitis wrote:
She can't make it any clearly than this:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/08 ... mmons-vot/

not even a parliamentary vote will be called and according to Constitutional Lawyers, there is no requirement for one as the people have voted.


Well, what do you know? May has done a U-turn and there will now be a parliamentary debate on the matter. Harold Wilson said a week was a long time in politics. It looks like a day is a long time, too.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... parliament


They can debate all they like, but she already has the mandate provided to her by the people to trigger Article 50.

Sure she will be transparent. She was transparent when she provided a road-map to triggering the BREXIT by March next year.

You can't just give the people a referendum and then just decide not to trigger Article 50 because the parliament doesn't like it, or because you or anyone else doesn't like it. One would presume that had the BREXITERs lost, you would be lauding the result but apparently not now as they had won!

Sorry, but no cigar! Doesn't make sense. it is also unfair and disrespectful to millions of voters.

Might as well have a dictatorship because then we would know that referendums mean nothing, and neither the will of the popular vote.

This explains the slight improvement of Stg overnight.
Parliament IS the supreme body , not the PM. If it came to a vote on repealing the accession act of 1972 then is ...goodbye Brexit !


no it doesn't! it has NOTHING to do with Government or what they announce.

The increase can be due to foreign investment, and there will be a lot of that going on which will result in a rising GBP.

Also the banks will be buying back too, because they end up with more GBP. Sell high, buy low is what they do.

And as I told you before, they will sell off AGAIN when they get clearer indication of Artocle 50 declaration. There is no way any bank or Institutional Investor will hang around with GBP in the hands like you did despite wanting to buy a house in EUROS. :lol:

Nice try though. Your attempt to gain credit by attributing May's comments is very funny and weird.

Banks don't care what May has to say or whether she is going to debate BREXIT in Parliament or be transparent. What gave you that idea?
Last edited by Paphitis on Wed Oct 12, 2016 10:42 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Theresa May's declaration.

Postby Tim Drayton » Wed Oct 12, 2016 10:41 am

Paphitis wrote:
Might as well have a dictatorship because then we would know that referendums mean nothing, and neither the will of the popular vote.


Well, there was a federal election in Australia on 2 July of this year, and Labor won by a fairly convincing majority. So, does this mean that that result is now set in stone and Labor must rule in perpetuity? No. The popular will changes and other parties will form governments in the future. That is what democracy is about. The 23 June referendum in the UK produced a result by a slim majority in which research shows that large numbers of those who voted no did so in protest against immigration and not in response to the question on the ballot slip. No clear mandate for massive change emerged from that vote, which only had advisory status in constitutional terms. The will of the people can change over time. Nothing is written in stone. There is everything to play for. I would agree that either a second referendum or a general election in which a party/parties having expressed a clear mandate to remain in the EU is/are elected with strong popular support is needed to reverse the disastrous result of June 23, but it can be achieved in the years to come before the country departs the EU.
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Re: Theresa May's declaration.

Postby Paphitis » Wed Oct 12, 2016 10:45 am

Tim Drayton wrote:
Paphitis wrote:
Might as well have a dictatorship because then we would know that referendums mean nothing, and neither the will of the popular vote.


Well, there was a federal election in Australia on 2 July of this year, and Labor won by a fairly convincing majority. So, does this mean that that result is now set in stone and Labor must rule in perpetuity? No. The popular will changes and other parties will form governments in the future. That is what democracy is about. The 23 June referendum in the UK produced a result by a slim majority in which research shows that large numbers of those who voted no did so in protest against immigration and not in response to the question on the ballot slip. No clear mandate for massive change emerged from that vote, which only had advisory status in constitutional terms. The will of the people can change over time. Nothing is written in stone. There is everything to play for. I would agree that either a second referendum or a general election in which a party/parties having expressed a clear mandate to remain in the EU is/are elected with a strong popular mandate is needed to reverse the disastrous result of June 23, but it can be achieved in the years to come before the country departs the EU.


Sorry but the Constitution is very clear. The Liberals won more seats thank heaven's and hence have the reps to nominate the PM.

In other elections it is the other way around.

BTW, that isn't true! The Coalition got more votes than Labor by a long shot.

WRT the referendum, it doesn't matter the margin of the BREXIT win. It wouldn't have mattered if the BREXITERs lost would it? No of course it wouldn't.

Vote is done, and now its time to see the will of the people invoked in all its glory. :D
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