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Western Democracy can never work in the ME

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Re: Western Democracy can never work in the ME

Postby Schnauzer » Sat Oct 22, 2016 10:47 am

Paphitis wrote:
Schnauzer wrote:
miltiades wrote:This article was written by Andrew Green, former Ambassador to Syria and to Saudi Arabia way back in August 2014.

I have always maintained that the ME can never be ruled by a western style democratic system.

." The enthusiasm of yester-year for the “Arab Spring” has proved entirely misguided. It has led to chaos in Egypt and anarchy in Libya. Those determined to be “on the right side of history” now find themselves on the wrong side of the argument. Democracy is empathically not the solution for extremely complex societies and Western meddling only makes matters immeasurably worse. The fundamental reason for our failure is that democracy, as we understand it, simply doesn’t work in Middle Eastern countries. "

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldne ... -East.html


The article is a very good example of thoughtful journalism and there is much to commend it.

Why did you find it necessary to emphasize YOUR opinion (highlighted) prior to the opportunity to read it ?.

You have published more disparaging comments about the ME than (probably) any other forum member and have consistently backed every action of the 'Democratic Western Forces' in their quest to contaminate the 'Cultures' of the Eastern nations and impose their will upon them both by means of political manoeuvres and force of arms.

Since such plans have been met with serious rejection by those Eastern nations and the resulting opposition culminating in the uprising of retaliatory forces that would rather DIE than accede to the ambitions of those Western powers (and forces), you no doubt NOW are able to determine that the 'Campaigns' of oppression are not going quite so well as expected, therefore, it is time to 'Jump Ship' and prepare yourself for the possibility of being on the wrong side of the fence. (typical). :roll:

Had it not been for the fact that you were caught 'Red Handed' when you 'Plagiarised' the work of other journalists (recently) I suspect you would have claimed THIS article as you 'Own Work' :roll:.

Here is a good tip for you, in future, when you feel the need to resort to such deception, shove a few 'Fucks' into the article and you might get away with it. :lol:


Happy to see that Miltiades and yourself are achieving a level of convergence.

makes me feel more secure that I am on the right path.


"Good on Ya Cobber" :lol:
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Re: Western Democracy can never work in the ME

Postby miltiades » Sat Oct 22, 2016 11:00 am

I'm on record denouncing the involvement of the west in the ME. I HAVE NEVER SUPPORTED involvement in these " theocratic" dictatorial regimes and have always stated that our democracy, our values and cultures are not the least compatible with those held by the people of these countries.

Nations that still practice medieval beliefs should be left alone to make their own decisions, provided they also leave us alone to carry on with our own.
Last edited by miltiades on Sat Oct 22, 2016 11:07 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Western Democracy can never work in the ME

Postby Schnauzer » Sat Oct 22, 2016 11:06 am

miltiades wrote:I'm on record denouncing the involvement of the west in the ME. I HAVE NEVER SUPPORTED involvement in these " theocratic" dictatorial regimes and have always stated that our democracy, our values and cultures are not the lest compatible with those held by the people of these countries.

Nations that still practice medieval beliefs should be left alone to make their own decisions


Precisely. :wink:
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Re: Western Democracy can never work in the ME

Postby Paphitis » Sat Oct 22, 2016 11:11 am

miltiades wrote:I'm on record denouncing the involvement of the west in the ME. I HAVE NEVER SUPPORTED involvement in these " theocratic" dictatorial regimes and have always stated that our democracy, our values and cultures are not the least compatible with those held by the people of these countries.

Nations that still practice medieval beliefs should be left alone to make their own decisions, provided they also leave us alone to carry on with our own.


It's not up to you or the West to be dictating to them anything about what you call medieval Beliefs.

These are issues for them to resolve.

And that is what we do, but that does not for a second imply that the UN or the West will stand by and just watch a raving lunatic kill 300,000 of his own people just to maintain power. These are International war crimes and the international community has an obligation.
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Re: Western Democracy can never work in the ME

Postby miltiades » Sat Oct 22, 2016 12:17 pm

Paphitis wrote:
miltiades wrote:I'm on record denouncing the involvement of the west in the ME. I HAVE NEVER SUPPORTED involvement in these " theocratic" dictatorial regimes and have always stated that our democracy, our values and cultures are not the least compatible with those held by the people of these countries.

Nations that still practice medieval beliefs should be left alone to make their own decisions, provided they also leave us alone to carry on with our own.


It's not up to you or the West to be dictating to them anything about what you call medieval Beliefs.

These are issues for them to resolve.

And that is what we do, but that does not for a second imply that the UN or the West will stand by and just watch a raving lunatic kill 300,000 of his own people just to maintain power. These are International war crimes and the international community has an obligation.

Isn't this precisely what I said? Let them live their lives as they wish. You on the other hand persist in dictating to them your views. Assad has been in power, and his father before him,for decades and Syria enjoyed peace and economic advantages. In come the West determined to replace Assad with an entity that has yet to be revealed!!
You are an observer just as I and everyone else on this forum, you have made the whole issue a personal one with your persistent usage of WE, US and other such phraseology. You have not the slightest influence just as I and every one else. I believe that peace can only be restored once the islamist rebels are defeated and the west clears off.
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Re: Western Democracy can never work in the ME

Postby Lordo » Sat Oct 22, 2016 12:22 pm

miltiades wrote:I think every one knows that Syria has been ruled for decades by one family. Also, every one knows that just like other ME countries Syria was also ruled not according to western type of democracy but a " democratic" dictatorship .

Let the ME sort out their differences be it religious differences or ideological.
We have seen the chaos created in Iraq following the removal of Saddam, a ruthless dictator but not that different from all other dictators ruling the ME.

Saudi Arabia, in my opinion, is probably the most dictatorial intolerant regime in the world. Why does the west tolerate and go to bed with such a regime ?

they dont tolerate or go to bed with them you stupid old yero, they put them there and back them to the hilt to keep them there. will you never learn. once oil runs out they will be allowed to have democracy.
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Re: Western Democracy can never work in the ME

Postby miltiades » Sat Oct 22, 2016 12:30 pm

Lordo wrote:
miltiades wrote:I think every one knows that Syria has been ruled for decades by one family. Also, every one knows that just like other ME countries Syria was also ruled not according to western type of democracy but a " democratic" dictatorship .

Let the ME sort out their differences be it religious differences or ideological.
We have seen the chaos created in Iraq following the removal of Saddam, a ruthless dictator but not that different from all other dictators ruling the ME.

Saudi Arabia, in my opinion, is probably the most dictatorial intolerant regime in the world. Why does the west tolerate and go to bed with such a regime ?

they dont tolerate or go to bed with them you stupid old yero, they put them there and back them to the hilt to keep them there. will you never learn. once oil runs out they will be allowed to have democracy.

Shut up you Plonker of an idiot, at 86 years old you should know better!
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Re: Western Democracy can never work in the ME

Postby Schnauzer » Sat Oct 22, 2016 1:56 pm

Paphitis wrote:
miltiades wrote:I'm on record denouncing the involvement of the west in the ME. I HAVE NEVER SUPPORTED involvement in these " theocratic" dictatorial regimes and have always stated that our democracy, our values and cultures are not the least compatible with those held by the people of these countries.

Nations that still practice medieval beliefs should be left alone to make their own decisions, provided they also leave us alone to carry on with our own.


It's not up to you or the West to be dictating to them anything about what you call medieval Beliefs.

These are issues for them to resolve.

And that is what we do, but that does not for a second imply that the UN or the West will stand by and just watch a raving lunatic kill 300,000 of his own people just to maintain power. These are International war crimes and the international community has an obligation.


Better to stand by and watch MORE 'Raving Lunatics' slaughter MILLIONS of innocent people in the guise of 'Saving 'them eh ?. :roll:
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Re: Western Democracy can never work in the ME

Postby Paphitis » Sun Oct 23, 2016 3:24 am

Schnauzer wrote:
Paphitis wrote:
miltiades wrote:I'm on record denouncing the involvement of the west in the ME. I HAVE NEVER SUPPORTED involvement in these " theocratic" dictatorial regimes and have always stated that our democracy, our values and cultures are not the least compatible with those held by the people of these countries.

Nations that still practice medieval beliefs should be left alone to make their own decisions, provided they also leave us alone to carry on with our own.


It's not up to you or the West to be dictating to them anything about what you call medieval Beliefs.

These are issues for them to resolve.

And that is what we do, but that does not for a second imply that the UN or the West will stand by and just watch a raving lunatic kill 300,000 of his own people just to maintain power. These are International war crimes and the international community has an obligation.


Better to stand by and watch MORE 'Raving Lunatics' slaughter MILLIONS of innocent people in the guise of 'Saving 'them eh ?. :roll:


I thought that is exactly what we are doing. Just sitting on our hands watching a butcher slaughter thousands and also watch the eviction of millions from their homes.

We shouldn't be doing that right? we shouldn't be watching and condoning War crimes of this nature. If we do, then it's sends a powerful message for more to come.
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Re: Western Democracy can never work in the ME

Postby Paphitis » Sun Oct 23, 2016 3:30 am

miltiades wrote:
Paphitis wrote:
miltiades wrote:I'm on record denouncing the involvement of the west in the ME. I HAVE NEVER SUPPORTED involvement in these " theocratic" dictatorial regimes and have always stated that our democracy, our values and cultures are not the least compatible with those held by the people of these countries.

Nations that still practice medieval beliefs should be left alone to make their own decisions, provided they also leave us alone to carry on with our own.


It's not up to you or the West to be dictating to them anything about what you call medieval Beliefs.

These are issues for them to resolve.

And that is what we do, but that does not for a second imply that the UN or the West will stand by and just watch a raving lunatic kill 300,000 of his own people just to maintain power. These are International war crimes and the international community has an obligation.

Isn't this precisely what I said? Let them live their lives as they wish. You on the other hand persist in dictating to them your views. Assad has been in power, and his father before him,for decades and Syria enjoyed peace and economic advantages. In come the West determined to replace Assad with an entity that has yet to be revealed!!
You are an observer just as I and everyone else on this forum, you have made the whole issue a personal one with your persistent usage of WE, US and other such phraseology. You have not the slightest influence just as I and every one else. I believe that peace can only be restored once the islamist rebels are defeated and the west clears off.


No we don't. we have never dictated to them. in fact we are the most tolerant towards them. we believe in self determination and their rights as citizens. doesn't mean we insist that they should all become Western Style Democracies.

they can have a Dictatorship if they want.

hell, they can organize a proxy marriage between a Sunni and Shia and call it the Royal family for all we care, and they can rule that way.

In Syria, we are saying Assad has lost legitimacy because he is a war criminal and does not rule even handedly between the sectarian divide. We are NOT saying Syria should be a democracy. That is up to them to sort out. we like to see a national unity between Sunni and Shia. And Russia can maintain a presence and even control it as a client and have permanent troops in Syria because we aren't interested in the basket case. We are not interested in permanently occupying countries and maintaining security indefinitely for them. At the very most, we only want a temporary presence, and prefer the sidelines and just helping them from there.

We don't even want a presence in iraq. it's up to maliki to make things happen and if he doesn't, we won't be there to bail him out all the time.

we are of course interested in Assad. that's one man we won't let go off, and we have the power and support to make his existence very difficult.
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