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Western Democracy can never work in the ME

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Western Democracy can never work in the ME

Postby miltiades » Sat Oct 22, 2016 8:46 am

This article was written by Andrew Green, former Ambassador to Syria and to Saudi Arabia way back in August 2014.

I have always maintained that the ME can never be ruled by a western style democratic system.

." The enthusiasm of yester-year for the “Arab Spring” has proved entirely misguided. It has led to chaos in Egypt and anarchy in Libya. Those determined to be “on the right side of history” now find themselves on the wrong side of the argument. Democracy is empathically not the solution for extremely complex societies and Western meddling only makes matters immeasurably worse. The fundamental reason for our failure is that democracy, as we understand it, simply doesn’t work in Middle Eastern countries. "

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldne ... -East.html
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Re: Western Democracy can never work in the ME

Postby Get Real! » Sat Oct 22, 2016 9:08 am

No shit Sherlock! :?
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Re: Western Democracy can never work in the ME

Postby Paphitis » Sat Oct 22, 2016 9:17 am

Who said the west wanted to install democracy and our way of life to the Middle east?

The west is actually quite understanding and happy enough to be dealing with dictators in certain countries for as long as some control is maintained. Many of our allies are Dynastic Dictatorships.

But of course that is today. As time presses on, EVERY country reforms itself in its own time, and many make a transition towards democracy. So I do not agree that democracy will never work in the Middle east. There will come a time when the people will demand democracy. The thing is, to assist them in making the transition as peaceful as possible. In many cases, it will be a bloody transition not because the people can't have democracy or it won't work, but because of a ruthless dictator that will do anything to maintain power and control to the point of even killing their own people and persecuting the population.

Dictators govern with fear usually, in order to keep the population suppressed. it is a tactic which works very well, until one day they lose all control. It's a cycle which will never end. That's because people who are oppressed, and live in situations which they don't like, and look upon the west with envy, will eventually rise up and begin demonstrations, and sometimes violence follows and armed uprisings.

so it is VERY important that a Dictator has a roadmap for change. Either that or you make the entire country flush with money where everyone gets a job, a piece of land, and pays no tax. In effect, buy the people off. there are only 2 or 3 countries that can afford that and practice it, and they all have Diynastic dictatorships.
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Re: Western Democracy can never work in the ME

Postby miltiades » Sat Oct 22, 2016 10:15 am

I would much prefer the views expressed by a former Ambassador to Syria and Saudi Arabia than the views of armchair commentators. Events over many years prove those views valid. Nations that are " governed" by religious mythology will never have a democratic system that is incompatible with their beliefs.

Sooner or later we shall see further conflicts in other parts of the ME , not least the vile regime of Saudi Arabia, tolerated by the West purely because of interests.
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Re: Western Democracy can never work in the ME

Postby Lordo » Sat Oct 22, 2016 10:16 am

its blind leading the blind. you are cluless how the third world countries are controlled by the corporations for the benefit of themselves becasue they let you assholes have the crumbs. you aint go a single brain cell between the lot of you.

get out of the middle east and stay pout you assholes.
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Re: Western Democracy can never work in the ME

Postby Paphitis » Sat Oct 22, 2016 10:21 am

miltiades wrote:I would much prefer the views expressed by a former Ambassador to Syria and Saudi Arabia than the views of armchair commentators. Events over many years prove those views valid. Nations that are " governed" by religious mythology will never have a democratic system that is incompatible with their beliefs.

Sooner or later we shall see further conflicts in other parts of the ME , not least the vile regime of Saudi Arabia, tolerated by the West purely because of interests.


So is the former ambassador of Syria saying that Syria is not a Democracy? OM fucking G!

I thought Assad got 99.9% of the vote last election. Who would have thought hey?

And of course the Saudi Ambassador would say such things. They are probably the 75th cousin of the King. how do you expect he became ambassador to begin with? He is on the gravy train and probably extremely wealthy as well.

However, speak to the people, and you will see a deep desire in some parts.

In other countries, the Dictator is however so heavily loved and respected much more than Cypriots liked Makarios. Go to the UAE and Qatar for instance. If there were elections their, the royal family would indeed get 90% of the vote without rigging it. That's because ALL citizens are on the gravy train. that is the only way their rule can become indefinite.
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Re: Western Democracy can never work in the ME

Postby miltiades » Sat Oct 22, 2016 10:35 am

I think every one knows that Syria has been ruled for decades by one family. Also, every one knows that just like other ME countries Syria was also ruled not according to western type of democracy but a " democratic" dictatorship .

Let the ME sort out their differences be it religious differences or ideological.
We have seen the chaos created in Iraq following the removal of Saddam, a ruthless dictator but not that different from all other dictators ruling the ME.

Saudi Arabia, in my opinion, is probably the most dictatorial intolerant regime in the world. Why does the west tolerate and go to bed with such a regime ?
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Re: Western Democracy can never work in the ME

Postby Schnauzer » Sat Oct 22, 2016 10:40 am

miltiades wrote:This article was written by Andrew Green, former Ambassador to Syria and to Saudi Arabia way back in August 2014.

I have always maintained that the ME can never be ruled by a western style democratic system.

." The enthusiasm of yester-year for the “Arab Spring” has proved entirely misguided. It has led to chaos in Egypt and anarchy in Libya. Those determined to be “on the right side of history” now find themselves on the wrong side of the argument. Democracy is empathically not the solution for extremely complex societies and Western meddling only makes matters immeasurably worse. The fundamental reason for our failure is that democracy, as we understand it, simply doesn’t work in Middle Eastern countries. "

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldne ... -East.html


The article is a very good example of thoughtful journalism and there is much to commend it.

Why did you find it necessary to emphasize YOUR opinion (highlighted) prior to the opportunity to read it ?.

You have published more disparaging comments about the ME than (probably) any other forum member and have consistently backed every action of the 'Democratic Western Forces' in their quest to contaminate the 'Cultures' of the Eastern nations and impose their will upon them both by means of political manoeuvres and force of arms.

Since such plans have been met with serious rejection by those Eastern nations and the resulting opposition culminating in the uprising of retaliatory forces that would rather DIE than accede to the ambitions of those Western powers (and forces), you no doubt NOW are able to determine that the 'Campaigns' of oppression are not going quite so well as expected, therefore, it is time to 'Jump Ship' and prepare yourself for the possibility of being on the wrong side of the fence. (typical). :roll:

Had it not been for the fact that you were caught 'Red Handed' when you 'Plagiarised' the work of other journalists (recently) I suspect you would have claimed THIS article as you 'Own Work' :roll:.

Here is a good tip for you, in future, when you feel the need to resort to such deception, shove a few 'Fucks' into the article and you might get away with it. :lol:
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Re: Western Democracy can never work in the ME

Postby Paphitis » Sat Oct 22, 2016 10:44 am

miltiades wrote:I think every one knows that Syria has been ruled for decades by one family. Also, every one knows that just like other ME countries Syria was also ruled not according to western type of democracy but a " democratic" dictatorship .

Let the ME sort out their differences be it religious differences or ideological.
We have seen the chaos created in Iraq following the removal of Saddam, a ruthless dictator but not that different from all other dictators ruling the ME.

Saudi Arabia, in my opinion, is probably the most dictatorial intolerant regime in the world. Why does the west tolerate and go to bed with such a regime ?


but I thought Syria was a democracy! that is what you have been saying. that is what robin hood has been saying.

I am so disappointed now, knowing that all your posts were rubbish. What am I going to do now?

Fact is, the West don't want to be running these countries and maintain security from an imposed by us democratic System. The main issue at the heart of discontent is not allowing people to live in dignity for whatever reason. the population could be ruthlessly oppressed by a Dictator and have their HR violated, or the country could have a sectarian divide (like Syria and Iraq) where the other sect live in squalor, can't send their kids to school, no employment opportunities and generally just having a bad existence.

The west is more than happy to tolerate many Dictatorships. What is the West or the UN finds difficult to accept are gross violations of HR, oppression, summary killings, incarcerations, the use of chemical and biological weapons and so on.

The fact that some Dictators do this, IS the reason why there is war, and rebel and terrorist groups. no one in their right mind just wakes up and decides that the AK47 is their best companion.
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Re: Western Democracy can never work in the ME

Postby Paphitis » Sat Oct 22, 2016 10:45 am

Schnauzer wrote:
miltiades wrote:This article was written by Andrew Green, former Ambassador to Syria and to Saudi Arabia way back in August 2014.

I have always maintained that the ME can never be ruled by a western style democratic system.

." The enthusiasm of yester-year for the “Arab Spring” has proved entirely misguided. It has led to chaos in Egypt and anarchy in Libya. Those determined to be “on the right side of history” now find themselves on the wrong side of the argument. Democracy is empathically not the solution for extremely complex societies and Western meddling only makes matters immeasurably worse. The fundamental reason for our failure is that democracy, as we understand it, simply doesn’t work in Middle Eastern countries. "

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldne ... -East.html


The article is a very good example of thoughtful journalism and there is much to commend it.

Why did you find it necessary to emphasize YOUR opinion (highlighted) prior to the opportunity to read it ?.

You have published more disparaging comments about the ME than (probably) any other forum member and have consistently backed every action of the 'Democratic Western Forces' in their quest to contaminate the 'Cultures' of the Eastern nations and impose their will upon them both by means of political manoeuvres and force of arms.

Since such plans have been met with serious rejection by those Eastern nations and the resulting opposition culminating in the uprising of retaliatory forces that would rather DIE than accede to the ambitions of those Western powers (and forces), you no doubt NOW are able to determine that the 'Campaigns' of oppression are not going quite so well as expected, therefore, it is time to 'Jump Ship' and prepare yourself for the possibility of being on the wrong side of the fence. (typical). :roll:

Had it not been for the fact that you were caught 'Red Handed' when you 'Plagiarised' the work of other journalists (recently) I suspect you would have claimed THIS article as you 'Own Work' :roll:.

Here is a good tip for you, in future, when you feel the need to resort to such deception, shove a few 'Fucks' into the article and you might get away with it. :lol:


Happy to see that Miltiades and yourself are achieving a level of convergence.

makes me feel more secure that I am on the right path.
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