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The return of Cyprus Airways

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Re: The return of Cyprus Airways

Postby Paphitis » Mon Dec 05, 2016 5:37 pm

Pyrpolizer wrote:@Paphitis:
how would anyone know how safe an airliner is? Are there any publicly available indicators?
This site here says it replies on passengers for it's ratings (what would a passenger know about the safety of the aircraft??). They sure do know how to rate it's service though :wink:

http://www.airlineratings.com/search.php


It's a very difficult metric. You can look at the passenger reviews if you want but usually it's a bit more technical than that.

The country in which the airline is registered as an Air Operator is a big factor. That's because of the regulatory environment under which they operate. For instance, EASY as a British company with British registered aircraft under a British AoC is better than an airline registered in Indonesia or Russia.

Then it is about many other factors such as:
1) what aircraft types they operate
2) average age of the Fleet
3) Maintenance standards
4) culture and safety standards
5) how they recruit pilots and train them
6) safety record and aviation incidents
7) Fatigue Management and pilot rosters
8) commercial pressures on pilots - for instance can pilots delay flights due weather or fatigue
9) safety management systems
10) Cockpit resource management training programs
11) multi crew interaction and command gradients (culturally influenced as Asia, Middle East are different to European)
12) and corporate branding. For example can't go wrong with the old established big legacy ones like Emirates, Qatar, BA, QANTAS, Lufthansa, Singapore, Cathay, Air France etc etc etc
13) salary levels - good legacy airlines pay big money. So they get the cream of the crop. Inexperienced pilots go to LCC and worse still to companies like Lyon Air in Indonesia etc. Captains are on 35k per month.
14) surveillance checking
15) check and training
16) Instrument and Sim Checks
17) simulator equipment
18) medical checks and psychological health surveillance (will they make pilots fly when they Mrs threw a knife at him and took the kids to the in laws etc)


There are a lot of factors.

Also, the law of economics. Low Cost Carriers are not as good as Business Airlines no matter what jurisdiction but a British LCC would be 10 times better than an Indonesian or Russian LCC and so forth.

Usually, it's the pilots who let the cat out the bag. Like for example when a western pilot flies for Garuda and leaves, they usually tell their mates about the internal operations and so forth.
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Re: The return of Cyprus Airways

Postby supporttheunderdog » Mon Dec 05, 2016 9:43 pm

Just when you thought it was safe to go back in the water, the bad penny turns up ...

Sorry to say "g"IG Cyprus Airways was as far as I can tell was not well run nor viable but due to political and Union influence became A bloated operation with far more operational and related management staff per plane than most other airlines, which staff earned very high wages by any industry standard, and in consequence CA became a bottomless money swallowing pit. The EU eventually decided the aid was illegal and ordered payback. CA could not do that and shut down very fast, the staff were laid off, etc, all on 9th Jan 2015. Yeas, a sad day, but

As i recall the government bought the logo and trading name from the liquidators for a couple of million Euros, which was only a very small part of the debt. They have now leased it to Charlie, which is apparently only minority owned by S7.

I for one will have no particular qualms about using the new airline, subject to the usual consideration about route and schedule, But as I could not find routing for them, nor tickets, later this year I will be flying the family using Aegean to and from London, and as i will be travelling later I will be using Blue, to Luton.

I will also likely be flying To Chengdu, probably in the next few days, where sadly I have to cremate one of my sons, who died there two weeks back. I always wanted to go to China but not for this. Not a trip I am looking forward too.
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Re: The return of Cyprus Airways

Postby MR-from-NG » Mon Dec 05, 2016 10:28 pm

supporttheunderdog wrote:Just when you thought it was safe to go back in the water, the bad penny turns up ...

Sorry to say "g"IG Cyprus Airways was as far as I can tell was not well run nor viable but due to political and Union influence became A bloated operation with far more operational and related management staff per plane than most other airlines, which staff earned very high wages by any industry standard, and in consequence CA became a bottomless money swallowing pit. The EU eventually decided the aid was illegal and ordered payback. CA could not do that and shut down very fast, the staff were laid off, etc, all on 9th Jan 2015. Yeas, a sad day, but

As i recall the government bought the logo and trading name from the liquidators for a couple of million Euros, which was only a very small part of the debt. They have now leased it to Charlie, which is apparently only minority owned by S7.

I for one will have no particular qualms about using the new airline, subject to the usual consideration about route and schedule, But as I could not find routing for them, nor tickets, later this year I will be flying the family using Aegean to and from London, and as i will be travelling later I will be using Blue, to Luton.

I will also likely be flying To Chengdu, probably in the next few days, where sadly I have to cremate one of my sons, who died there two weeks back. I always wanted to go to China but not for this. Not a trip I am looking forward too.


Sorry to hear about your son stud. May he rest in peace. Was your sons name Steve? A stuntman?
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Re: The return of Cyprus Airways

Postby supporttheunderdog » Mon Dec 05, 2016 10:37 pm

Thanks, but no he was not a stunt msn called Steve.
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Re: The return of Cyprus Airways

Postby MR-from-NG » Mon Dec 05, 2016 10:42 pm

supporttheunderdog wrote:Thanks, but no he was not a stunt msn called Steve.

My condolences and RIP to your late son. I mentioned about the stuntman because I have a friend who's son is a stuntman, he does a lot of stunts on Game of Thrones and he mentioned its a dangerous occupation and just recently a stuntman in China was killed. Go give you strength stud.
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Re: The return of Cyprus Airways

Postby Paphitis » Tue Dec 06, 2016 1:13 am

supporttheunderdog wrote:Just when you thought it was safe to go back in the water, the bad penny turns up ...

Sorry to say "g"IG Cyprus Airways was as far as I can tell was not well run nor viable but due to political and Union influence became A bloated operation with far more operational and related management staff per plane than most other airlines, which staff earned very high wages by any industry standard, and in consequence CA became a bottomless money swallowing pit. The EU eventually decided the aid was illegal and ordered payback. CA could not do that and shut down very fast, the staff were laid off, etc, all on 9th Jan 2015. Yeas, a sad day, but

As i recall the government bought the logo and trading name from the liquidators for a couple of million Euros, which was only a very small part of the debt. They have now leased it to Charlie, which is apparently only minority owned by S7.

I for one will have no particular qualms about using the new airline, subject to the usual consideration about route and schedule, But as I could not find routing for them, nor tickets, later this year I will be flying the family using Aegean to and from London, and as i will be travelling later I will be using Blue, to Luton.

I will also likely be flying To Chengdu, probably in the next few days, where sadly I have to cremate one of my sons, who died there two weeks back. I always wanted to go to China but not for this. Not a trip I am looking forward too.


A lot of that was over exaggerated. it's true it was bloated with a lot of dead wood staff, and the work force was heavily unionized by a Union that had no clue about Aviation matters. it was the same Union as the Public Service Union. Usually pilots have their own, and Unions are heavily manned with aviation professionals and pilots.

But a Cyprus Airways captain was on 8000 euros plus penalties.

A Cyprus Airways FO was on 5000 euros plus penalties.

Check and Training at Cyprus Airways were on 10000 euros per month plus penalties. Cypriot politicians are on more and they do bugger all.

This was not high at all, considering the fact that the industry norm is actually anywhere between 25 to 45K per month for captains and between 15 to 25k for First Officers.

Basically, the Cyprus mail readership were just jealous that Cyprus Airways pilots even earned that much.

EASYJET pilots were on more money than Cyprus Airways.

Sorry to hear this about your son. A father should never have to deal with such a loss in their lifetime. God bless you and your family.
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Re: The return of Cyprus Airways

Postby miltiades » Tue Dec 06, 2016 5:07 am

My condolences my dear friend, so sad, I do feel for you.
May he rest in peace. I hope in time you and your family will recover from such a tragedy.
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Re: The return of Cyprus Airways

Postby supporttheunderdog » Tue Dec 06, 2016 3:52 pm

Paphitis wrote:
supporttheunderdog wrote:Just when you thought it was safe to go back in the water, the bad penny turns up ...

Sorry to say "g"IG Cyprus Airways was as far as I can tell was not well run nor viable but due to political and Union influence became A bloated operation with far more operational and related management staff per plane than most other airlines, which staff earned very high wages by any industry standard, and in consequence CA became a bottomless money swallowing pit. The EU eventually decided the aid was illegal and ordered payback. CA could not do that and shut down very fast, the staff were laid off, etc, all on 9th Jan 2015. Yeas, a sad day, but

As i recall the government bought the logo and trading name from the liquidators for a couple of million Euros, which was only a very small part of the debt. They have now leased it to Charlie, which is apparently only minority owned by S7.

I for one will have no particular qualms about using the new airline, subject to the usual consideration about route and schedule, But as I could not find routing for them, nor tickets, later this year I will be flying the family using Aegean to and from London, and as i will be travelling later I will be using Blue, to Luton.

I will also likely be flying To Chengdu, probably in the next few days, where sadly I have to cremate one of my sons, who died there two weeks back. I always wanted to go to China but not for this. Not a trip I am looking forward too.


A lot of that was over exaggerated. it's true it was bloated with a lot of dead wood staff, and the work force was heavily unionized by a Union that had no clue about Aviation matters. it was the same Union as the Public Service Union. Usually pilots have their own, and Unions are heavily manned with aviation professionals and pilots.

But a Cyprus Airways captain was on 8000 euros plus penalties.

A Cyprus Airways FO was on 5000 euros plus penalties.

Check and Training at Cyprus Airways were on 10000 euros per month plus penalties. Cypriot politicians are on more and they do bugger all.

This was not high at all, considering the fact that the industry norm is actually anywhere between 25 to 45K per month for captains and between 15 to 25k for First Officers.

Basically, the Cyprus mail readership were just jealous that Cyprus Airways pilots even earned that much.

EASYJET pilots were on more money than Cyprus Airways.

Sorry to hear this about your son. A father should never have to deal with such a loss in their lifetime. God bless you and your family.


Thanks firstly for the Condolences.

My own understanding from sites like (and I have looked at Several ) https://www.pea.com/airline-pilot-salary/ is that in 2015 a 10 year Captain with Cathay Pacific on 747's might make about USD 13500 a month (USD 162000 PA) while a 10 y FO might make about half that: I understand in the US Pilots are often paid per hour flying time (brakes of at terminal to brakes on) at Rates at eg Delta up to 260 per hour (who are reputedly the top payer) and a Captain with Long service might make USD 170000 PA but by and large only the top 10% of pilots are likely to make that sort of money, which is under USD 15000 per month. Many airlines pay less per hour, and the true rate is lot less as ground duties which may be twice as much as flight time are not paid. A report dd 24th November in https://www.glassdoor.co.uk/Salary/easyJet-Salaries-E8754.htm suggests Easyjet Captains are earning about GBP 97000 or so Eu 115000 at current ROE which is not that much more than the figures you give for the basic for a former CY Captain. Here, according to one report, in 2012 CY was seemingly paying its pilots roughly twice as much as other lines such as BA while cabin crew got three times the rate of Aegean Cabin Crew,

I cannot find anything to support figures of 25000 to 45000 a month for a Captain or 15 to 25k for FO .

Then there were the staff numbers....
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Re: The return of Cyprus Airways

Postby GreekIslandGirl » Tue Dec 06, 2016 4:15 pm

Deepest sympathies to you and your family, stud.
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Re: The return of Cyprus Airways

Postby supporttheunderdog » Tue Dec 06, 2016 4:34 pm

GreekIslandGirl wrote:Deepest sympathies to you and your family, stud.



Thank you for this. I appreciate it.
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