The Best Cyprus Community

Skip to content


ADMIN: Request IP check on member cp279

Do you have any suggestions on how we can improve our forums?

Moderator: Admin

Re: ADMIN: Request IP check on member cp279

Postby Robin Hood » Tue Jan 03, 2017 8:50 am

Paphitis wrote:
miltiades wrote:
RichardB wrote:I'm cp279 and so's my wife

How ...dare you !! I'm ...CPartacus known for short as CP :lol: :lol:


With so many revelations how Russia was delighted for the invasion of Cyprus, and the fact that Russia and Turkey are conducting joint military exercises and from the fact that the USA is the Republic's biggest monetary investor by a long shot and soon will become the biggest employer on the island, has you head finally gone pop? :lol:

Maybe Pootin's head has gone pop too, but I doubt it. He just knows Cypriots are dumb fucks and little lambs to the slaughter and laughs himself to sleep every night at the prospect of another grovelling Christofias who should be stuffed and placed in a museum as a timely reminder of stupid! :lol:


The US isn't investing in Cyprus! They will create debt for the RoC by borrowing money in the name of Cyprus plc. for the project. All the RoC will see is a small percentage of the unit price of product that NE sell. On the other hand, Russian money is actual Russian money that is transferred and spent in Cyprus, therefore no debt is incurred by the RoC, it is all income!

Neither President Putin or the Russian Government is involved! :roll:
Robin Hood
Regular Contributor
Regular Contributor
 
Posts: 2536
Joined: Mon May 18, 2009 7:18 pm
Location: Limassol

Re: ADMIN: Request IP check on member cp279

Postby DT. » Tue Jan 03, 2017 9:04 am

Robin Hood wrote:
Paphitis wrote:
miltiades wrote:
RichardB wrote:I'm cp279 and so's my wife

How ...dare you !! I'm ...CPartacus known for short as CP :lol: :lol:


With so many revelations how Russia was delighted for the invasion of Cyprus, and the fact that Russia and Turkey are conducting joint military exercises and from the fact that the USA is the Republic's biggest monetary investor by a long shot and soon will become the biggest employer on the island, has you head finally gone pop? :lol:

Maybe Pootin's head has gone pop too, but I doubt it. He just knows Cypriots are dumb fucks and little lambs to the slaughter and laughs himself to sleep every night at the prospect of another grovelling Christofias who should be stuffed and placed in a museum as a timely reminder of stupid! :lol:


The US isn't investing in Cyprus! They will create debt for the RoC by borrowing money in the name of Cyprus plc. for the project. All the RoC will see is a small percentage of the unit price of product that NE sell. On the other hand, Russian money is actual Russian money that is transferred and spent in Cyprus, therefore no debt is incurred by the RoC, it is all income!

Neither President Putin or the Russian Government is involved! :roll:


Aphrodite Hills: 90m purchase and capex spent from a US hedge fund
Hellenic Bank: 1/3 owned by a US hedge fund
Bank of Cyprus: 28% owned by US hedge funds
Aphrodite plot: Noble energy
Casino: US operator and part investor
There's more...

Don't know what you mean about Russian money being actual money....these investments were performed by buying equity and debt directly from Cyprus. That's actual money.
User avatar
DT.
Leading Contributor
Leading Contributor
 
Posts: 12200
Joined: Sun Nov 12, 2006 8:34 pm
Location: Lefkosia

Re: ADMIN: Request IP check on member cp279

Postby Robin Hood » Tue Jan 03, 2017 10:06 am

DT. wrote:
Robin Hood wrote:
Paphitis wrote:
miltiades wrote:
RichardB wrote:I'm cp279 and so's my wife

How ...dare you !! I'm ...CPartacus known for short as CP :lol: :lol:


With so many revelations how Russia was delighted for the invasion of Cyprus, and the fact that Russia and Turkey are conducting joint military exercises and from the fact that the USA is the Republic's biggest monetary investor by a long shot and soon will become the biggest employer on the island, has you head finally gone pop? :lol:

Maybe Pootin's head has gone pop too, but I doubt it. He just knows Cypriots are dumb fucks and little lambs to the slaughter and laughs himself to sleep every night at the prospect of another grovelling Christofias who should be stuffed and placed in a museum as a timely reminder of stupid! :lol:


The US isn't investing in Cyprus! They will create debt for the RoC by borrowing money in the name of Cyprus plc. for the project. All the RoC will see is a small percentage of the unit price of product that NE sell. On the other hand, Russian money is actual Russian money that is transferred and spent in Cyprus, therefore no debt is incurred by the RoC, it is all income!

Neither President Putin or the Russian Government is involved! :roll:


Aphrodite Hills: 90m purchase and capex spent from a US hedge fund
Hellenic Bank: 1/3 owned by a US hedge fund
Bank of Cyprus: 28% owned by US hedge funds
Aphrodite plot: Noble energy
Casino: US operator and part investor
There's more...

Don't know what you mean about Russian money being actual money....these investments were performed by buying equity and debt directly from Cyprus. That's actual money.


I worked at a fairly senior level for the worlds largest construction company. I can assure you that they do not use their money to finance projects in the oil/gas industry. They raise a debt on behalf of the client that pays the US company their stage payments over the term of the contract. This debt, like all debt attracts interest and this increases debt over time. This is a debt on the RoC, not NE. The only possible way to pay off the debt is for the Client (RoC) to pay out of its returns from NE's sales.

The Russian money is money that belongs to Russians and/or Russian companies. When it is bought into Cyprus it is not the result of a debt that the RoC has to repay. It is not loaned to the RoC it is invested in the Roc .... as you point out.

That is real money, it is not a debt on the State as the Nobel Energy 'investment' will be. NE will have been repaid by the bank completely when product flows. The debt is not NE's it is on the RoC and their oil/gas facility will be their collateral.

Thus the NE deal is not really an investment, except for the RoC who will hopefully make a profit from the sale of product to repay their debt. If you buy a house, the Bank does not invest in your property, it creates a debt for you which you have to repay. If you do not pay they take your collateral. If your bank buys your house in their name and then rents it to you, they own it not you ..... but you will have no debt. This deal is similar to you or I buying a house, we say it is ours but we don't own it until we repay the debt. The builder made his profit when he was paid his final stage payment by the bank with money you had borrowed.

That is what I am attempting to point out. RoC will not owe money to NE it will own money to the banks. Therefore NE created a debt, they did not invest money in the project, as they own nothing, except any shares they may hold in the RoC's oil/gas field and it's infrastructure.
Robin Hood
Regular Contributor
Regular Contributor
 
Posts: 2536
Joined: Mon May 18, 2009 7:18 pm
Location: Limassol

Re: ADMIN: Request IP check on member cp279

Postby Paphitis » Tue Jan 03, 2017 10:14 am

DT. wrote:
Robin Hood wrote:
Paphitis wrote:
miltiades wrote:
RichardB wrote:I'm cp279 and so's my wife

How ...dare you !! I'm ...CPartacus known for short as CP :lol: :lol:


With so many revelations how Russia was delighted for the invasion of Cyprus, and the fact that Russia and Turkey are conducting joint military exercises and from the fact that the USA is the Republic's biggest monetary investor by a long shot and soon will become the biggest employer on the island, has you head finally gone pop? :lol:

Maybe Pootin's head has gone pop too, but I doubt it. He just knows Cypriots are dumb fucks and little lambs to the slaughter and laughs himself to sleep every night at the prospect of another grovelling Christofias who should be stuffed and placed in a museum as a timely reminder of stupid! :lol:


The US isn't investing in Cyprus! They will create debt for the RoC by borrowing money in the name of Cyprus plc. for the project. All the RoC will see is a small percentage of the unit price of product that NE sell. On the other hand, Russian money is actual Russian money that is transferred and spent in Cyprus, therefore no debt is incurred by the RoC, it is all income!

Neither President Putin or the Russian Government is involved! :roll:


Aphrodite Hills: 90m purchase and capex spent from a US hedge fund
Hellenic Bank: 1/3 owned by a US hedge fund
Bank of Cyprus: 28% owned by US hedge funds
Aphrodite plot: Noble energy
Casino: US operator and part investor
There's more...

Don't know what you mean about Russian money being actual money....these investments were performed by buying equity and debt directly from Cyprus. That's actual money.


Nice one DT.

The fool thinks that the Americans don't use real money, but of course Pootin definitely does. He has case loads of Bank Bills which he flies over to Cyprus in a clapped out Topolev. :lol: :lol:

Oh and he also said something about Noble Energy charging the RoC Government for the Oil Rigs when it is actually the Republic of Cyprus that has an equity share in the profits so of course they are liable to some of the expenditures.

he also said that Cypriots don't have the expertise to work on an Oil Rig, when I know my next door neighbor in Cyprus works in the Middle east as an Engineer. :lol:

Yeh the USA isn't investing in Cyprus! Well tickle me pink! god damn, they own a big chunk of all the banks in Cyprus! :lol:

Hellenic Bank = 33% American :lol:

Americans are Hellenes.
Last edited by Paphitis on Tue Jan 03, 2017 11:01 am, edited 1 time in total.
User avatar
Paphitis
Leading Contributor
Leading Contributor
 
Posts: 20971
Joined: Sun May 21, 2006 2:06 pm

Re: ADMIN: Request IP check on member cp279

Postby Paphitis » Tue Jan 03, 2017 10:46 am

Anyone still want to have a guess as to which country is the biggest investor in Cyprus?

Is it
a) USA
b) Mother Russia
c) China
d) Greece

:lol:
User avatar
Paphitis
Leading Contributor
Leading Contributor
 
Posts: 20971
Joined: Sun May 21, 2006 2:06 pm

Re: ADMIN: Request IP check on member cp279

Postby tsukoui » Tue Jan 03, 2017 11:24 am

On behalf of cp279 I am tempted to blow CF out of the water.

There are hidden circles in Cyprus.

Are we to believe they operate out in the open?

Own up, which one of you is the real daskaloi?

PM me if you prefer, thanks.
tsukoui
Regular Contributor
Regular Contributor
 
Posts: 1064
Joined: Thu Sep 30, 2010 9:10 pm

Re: ADMIN: Request IP check on member cp279

Postby Robin Hood » Thu Jan 05, 2017 10:59 am

The Forum Clown has spoken ..... as usual, a lot of rubbish!
Paphitis:

Nice one DT.

How would you know?
The fool thinks that the Americans don't use real money, but of course Pootin definitely does. He has case loads of Bank Bills which he flies over to Cyprus in a clapped out Topolev.


You know nothing about money ..... so don’t make childish comments, you just make yourself look even more stupid. FYI: Russia has substantial gold reserves that backs its currency, it also owns a large chunk of US $ debt as does China. He that owns your debt .... owns you!

Oh and he also said something about Noble Energy charging the RoC Government for the Oil Rigs when it is actually the Republic of Cyprus that has an equity share in the profits so of course they are liable to some of the expenditures.


You really are dumb! You have a plot of land, I as a builder build a house on it for you. Unless you are funding the construction from your own resources, you need to raise the cost of building the property. You do this by borrowing from a bank. I, the builder, gets paid contractually agreed stage payments from the bank until I completes the contract. The builder is paid and you have an equivalent debt ..... the bank who holds the debt, owns your property until the debt is paid.

The NE deal is no different in context. They will carry out the project to recover oil/gas from Cyprus’ owned bit of sea bed, but with money from a bank loan in the name of The RoC. If NE own the rig, (which may be the case ?) and do all the work at their own cost ......... when it comes on stream NE will pay the RoC a small commission for taking their oil/gas and selling it. The RoC will have no debt .... but they will not own the produce from the field. NE will have taken the risk and to NE would go the spoils. When the oil runs out, NE have made their profit and RoC loses its income.

Or RoC will own the infrastructure and the associated debt to the banks and NE will then operate the resource and RoC will pay them per unit production. There is no such thing as a free meal! (Surely, basic common sense for most people, although it obviously is beyond your comprehension?)

he also said that Cypriots don't have the expertise to work on an Oil Rig, when I know my next door neighbor in Cyprus works in the Middle east as an Engineer.


Firstly there are 'engineers' and there are Engineers! :roll: Thank goodness most Cypriots have more intelligence that you demonstrate. A 2013 Cyprus Mail report, about the subject of Cypriots working in the gas/oil industry and it mirrors exactly what I said ...... Cypriots have neither the expertise nor the experience to offer.

The ‘10,000’ jobs you refer to will mainly go to foreigners ..... the only jobs that Cypriots would be suitable for are the service support to the foreign workers as I previously stated. Maybe hard to swallow but Cypriot Universities like the Frederick Institute can provide all the ‘Gas/Oil Management’ degree courses they like but the recipients of the BSc or MSc’s have no experience and will start at the bottom of the ladder. They will not achieve a management position until they earn it through performance and experience .... say 20-30 years if they are lucky!

http://cyprus-mail.com/2013/09/22/leave-cyprus-now-if-you-want-gas-jobs-later/

Yeh the USA isn't investing in Cyprus! Well tickle me pink! god damn, they own a big chunk of all the banks in Cyprus!


Yes ..... they own the shares but they have added no actual value to the bank by investing more money. They have just acquired a ‘big chunk’ of possible profits or the debt, if the bank goes to the wall. The share holders who sell are the ones that make a profit (hopefully) ..... NOT the bank or the RoC!

Once again .... you show how little you know about the financial markets!

When you buy the first issue of shares in a company .... you are making an investment in that company. In return you get share certificates, which have no intrinsic or face value .... they are the equivalent of a receipt for the original share purchase. You will receive dividends as a share holder. Subsequent share transactions do not invest any more money into the company ..... they may increase the value of the ‘receipt’ but the company sees no more investment, no matter how much the shares increase in value. Only the share holder benefits and that value is a spot value at any given moment in time and is determined by market traders.

So, if a US company bought 51% of the shares in a Cyprus bank, it would control the bank but it would not have directly invested any money, only the previous holders of the ‘receipts’ would gain anything of value ...... like converting their ‘receipts’ into actual money with a defined value as currency and depositing that into a bank.

Hellenic Bank = 33% American


I’ll take you word for it!

Americans are Hellenes.


Maybe ..... but they are not a very smart people as a race. Nice people but ..... I doubt you would easily find an American ........ that could even find Cyprus on a map!


Once again you demonstrate your ignorance..........

Anyone still want to have a guess as to which country is the biggest investor in Cyprus?
Is it
a) USA
b) Mother Russia
c) China
d) Greece


According to the Cyprus government, latest figures available go up to 2010 ....... it is certainly NOT the USA. “The leading investor countries at 31 December 2009 were Greece (23.6%) , Russia (15.4%), the United Kingdom (10.8%)...... The US comes LAST (1.0%) even little Gibraltar was ahead of the them (1.1%) !

(can’t get a ‘link’ so Google it, if you want to get a more balanced and reasoned view.)

Ref: Cyprus Investors in Cyprus - Department or Trade, Ministry of Commerce, Industry and Tourism paper 2013

This describes investment ...... i.e. using their money and transferring it into projects in Cyprus ..... that is very different from buying shares on ‘The Markets’ as a percentage ownership of a company. If a US company used its own capital or borrows it outside of Cyprus, to build a hotel in Cyprus ...... then they are investing. If they buy shares in the Hilton Hotel Group .... they are buying shares from the current share owners. Hilton Hotel Group would not see any more money out of the deal, only if the US purchaser was buying shares directly from the Hilton Company.

DT:

Don't know what you mean about Russian money being actual money....these investments were performed by buying equity and debt directly from Cyprus. That's actual money
.

Buying ‘equity’, is buying up shares .... yes? The company whose shares are purchased do not see an increase in investment into their company unless it is from the initial share issue. After that, any further exchanges are the profit or loss to the holder of the share, not the company. So buying shares on the market is not investing more money into the Company or the RoC.

Buying ‘debt’, is lending money to a company/government ....yes? A Bond purchase has an intrinsic value and is redeemable at a given date in the future. You therefore hold the debt, whereas there is no debt when you purchase shares. A Bond is an IOU, whereas a share is a receipt with no defined or intrinsic value and is not redeemable within a given time period.

If a Russian brings a suitcase full of Dollars/Pounds/Euros to Cyprus in his ‘...clapped out Tupelov’ and spends it on whatever, it is an inflow of money into the economy. It is not a loan. They are effectively the first purchaser of their ‘share’ in the RoC economy and thus the payment they make goes into economy. If they bought RoC Government bonds, they would be loaning money to the RoC ......... so the RoC would be in debt to the Russian.
Robin Hood
Regular Contributor
Regular Contributor
 
Posts: 2536
Joined: Mon May 18, 2009 7:18 pm
Location: Limassol

Re: ADMIN: Request IP check on member cp279

Postby DT. » Thu Jan 05, 2017 3:29 pm

Robin Hood wrote:
DT:

Don't know what you mean about Russian money being actual money....these investments were performed by buying equity and debt directly from Cyprus. That's actual money
.

Buying ‘equity’, is buying up shares .... yes? The company whose shares are purchased do not see an increase in investment into their company unless it is from the initial share issue. After that, any further exchanges are the profit or loss to the holder of the share, not the company. So buying shares on the market is not investing more money into the Company or the RoC.

Buying ‘debt’, is lending money to a company/government ....yes? A Bond purchase has an intrinsic value and is redeemable at a given date in the future. You therefore hold the debt, whereas there is no debt when you purchase shares. A Bond is an IOU, whereas a share is a receipt with no defined or intrinsic value and is not redeemable within a given time period.

If a Russian brings a suitcase full of Dollars/Pounds/Euros to Cyprus in his ‘...clapped out Tupelov’ and spends it on whatever, it is an inflow of money into the economy. It is not a loan. They are effectively the first purchaser of their ‘share’ in the RoC economy and thus the payment they make goes into economy. If they bought RoC Government bonds, they would be loaning money to the RoC ......... so the RoC would be in debt to the Russian.



Sorry RH but you've got it wrong. WHen the US hedge funds bought into Bank of Cyprus they weren't buying someone else's shares. The shareholders at the time were completely wiped out in 2013 along with bondholders and depositholders (47% of it in BOC) The US hedge funds recapitalised the bank of Cyprus by 1bn Eur. That's brand new shares being issued with fresh capital going into the bank.
User avatar
DT.
Leading Contributor
Leading Contributor
 
Posts: 12200
Joined: Sun Nov 12, 2006 8:34 pm
Location: Lefkosia

Re: ADMIN: Request IP check on member cp279

Postby Robin Hood » Thu Jan 05, 2017 5:59 pm

DT. wrote:
Robin Hood wrote:
DT:

Don't know what you mean about Russian money being actual money....these investments were performed by buying equity and debt directly from Cyprus. That's actual money
.

Buying ‘equity’, is buying up shares .... yes? The company whose shares are purchased do not see an increase in investment into their company unless it is from the initial share issue. After that, any further exchanges are the profit or loss to the holder of the share, not the company. So buying shares on the market is not investing more money into the Company or the RoC.

Buying ‘debt’, is lending money to a company/government ....yes? A Bond purchase has an intrinsic value and is redeemable at a given date in the future. You therefore hold the debt, whereas there is no debt when you purchase shares. A Bond is an IOU, whereas a share is a receipt with no defined or intrinsic value and is not redeemable within a given time period.

If a Russian brings a suitcase full of Dollars/Pounds/Euros to Cyprus in his ‘...clapped out Tupelov’ and spends it on whatever, it is an inflow of money into the economy. It is not a loan. They are effectively the first purchaser of their ‘share’ in the RoC economy and thus the payment they make goes into economy. If they bought RoC Government bonds, they would be loaning money to the RoC ......... so the RoC would be in debt to the Russian.



Sorry RH but you've got it wrong. WHen the US hedge funds bought into Bank of Cyprus they weren't buying someone else's shares. The shareholders at the time were completely wiped out in 2013 along with bondholders and deposit holders (47% of it in BOC) The US hedge funds recapitalised the bank of Cyprus by 1bn Eur. That's brand new shares being issued with fresh capital going into the bank.


You're reading posts like Paphitis does ......... a quick skim of the headlines! :roll:

What did I say? ........ "The company whose shares are purchased do not see an increase in investment into their company unless it is from the initial share issue." ........... I think that sentence covers that point ?

What I was trying to explain to Paphitis is that buying shares on The Market's is not necessarily an injection of cash into the company unless you happen to be the first purchaser of those shares. You are then giving the company your money hoping you will get a good return if they use it wisely, the Company is never going to repay you your money as it is not loaned. From then on you are merely buying and selling receipts.

In addition to any dividends, you, as an investor, will make money if the shares rise in value or you lose if they fall. The rise or fall in value has little direct effect on the company, only in its perceived valuation.

Other than that point ..... do you agree that it was a reasonable perception of the difference between shares and bonds ..... and that if it is Russian cash spent in Cyprus, buying property and starting businesses, it contributes to the economy ? :?:
Robin Hood
Regular Contributor
Regular Contributor
 
Posts: 2536
Joined: Mon May 18, 2009 7:18 pm
Location: Limassol

Re: ADMIN: Request IP check on member cp279

Postby DT. » Thu Jan 05, 2017 7:59 pm

Robin Hood wrote:
DT. wrote:
Robin Hood wrote:
DT:

Don't know what you mean about Russian money being actual money....these investments were performed by buying equity and debt directly from Cyprus. That's actual money
.

Buying ‘equity’, is buying up shares .... yes? The company whose shares are purchased do not see an increase in investment into their company unless it is from the initial share issue. After that, any further exchanges are the profit or loss to the holder of the share, not the company. So buying shares on the market is not investing more money into the Company or the RoC.

Buying ‘debt’, is lending money to a company/government ....yes? A Bond purchase has an intrinsic value and is redeemable at a given date in the future. You therefore hold the debt, whereas there is no debt when you purchase shares. A Bond is an IOU, whereas a share is a receipt with no defined or intrinsic value and is not redeemable within a given time period.

If a Russian brings a suitcase full of Dollars/Pounds/Euros to Cyprus in his ‘...clapped out Tupelov’ and spends it on whatever, it is an inflow of money into the economy. It is not a loan. They are effectively the first purchaser of their ‘share’ in the RoC economy and thus the payment they make goes into economy. If they bought RoC Government bonds, they would be loaning money to the RoC ......... so the RoC would be in debt to the Russian.



Sorry RH but you've got it wrong. WHen the US hedge funds bought into Bank of Cyprus they weren't buying someone else's shares. The shareholders at the time were completely wiped out in 2013 along with bondholders and deposit holders (47% of it in BOC) The US hedge funds recapitalised the bank of Cyprus by 1bn Eur. That's brand new shares being issued with fresh capital going into the bank.


You're reading posts like Paphitis does ......... a quick skim of the headlines! :roll:

What did I say? ........ "The company whose shares are purchased do not see an increase in investment into their company unless it is from the initial share issue." ........... I think that sentence covers that point ?

What I was trying to explain to Paphitis is that buying shares on The Market's is not necessarily an injection of cash into the company unless you happen to be the first purchaser of those shares. You are then giving the company your money hoping you will get a good return if they use it wisely, the Company is never going to repay you your money as it is not loaned. From then on you are merely buying and selling receipts.

In addition to any dividends, you, as an investor, will make money if the shares rise in value or you lose if they fall. The rise or fall in value has little direct effect on the company, only in its perceived valuation.

Other than that point ..... do you agree that it was a reasonable perception of the difference between shares and bonds ..... and that if it is Russian cash spent in Cyprus, buying property and starting businesses, it contributes to the economy ? :?:


once again RH, when you recapitalize a company and issue new shares, the money goes into the company. Much like when you setup a new company and buy its shares for the first time. Its not that complicated, 1bn Eur went into the bank of Cyprus from a NEW SHARE ISSUE. They weren't brought from other shareholders, the bank issued new shares, the hedge funds paid for them and the bank received the money as equity.

This is fresh cash injected directly into the economy via the bank which is probably one of the most direc ways of impacting an economy.

Once again. The bank was RECAPITALISED, it ISSUED NEW SHARES, THE INVESTORS PAID THE BANK FOR THE SHARES not some other shareholder).
User avatar
DT.
Leading Contributor
Leading Contributor
 
Posts: 12200
Joined: Sun Nov 12, 2006 8:34 pm
Location: Lefkosia

PreviousNext

Return to Suggestions and Feedback

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 0 guests