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Momentum's leadership - Trotsky and Poum

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Re: Momentum's leadership - Trotsky and Poum

Postby Londonrake » Sun Jan 08, 2017 4:18 pm

I've always regarded Blair as one of "Populism's" accidental architects.

I suspect the "democrats" of the Remain camp will be fervently wishing he'd just go away, lest their efforts wind up as disastrously as his ME role.

I wonder if, after all that's transpired, he still dreams about getting that job? After all, there has to be money in it somewhere. Brexit would of course be the final curtain on that.

The left are in denial. They still don't seem to get it.


LibDems, "centrist" :?: :?
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Re: Momentum's leadership - Trotsky and Poum

Postby Tim Drayton » Sun Jan 08, 2017 4:42 pm

In 1997 Labour won a majority in the general election and formed the government. By your logic, the Conservatives should have accepted that a majority is a majority and they had lost, closed down the party and stopped trying to win the next election.
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Re: Momentum's leadership - Trotsky and Poum

Postby Londonrake » Sun Jan 08, 2017 5:47 pm

Tim Drayton wrote:In 1997 Labour won a majority in the general election and formed the government. By your logic, the Conservatives should have accepted that a majority is a majority and they had lost, closed down the party and stopped trying to win the next election.


Mmmmmmmm, nope.

What the Tories and their supporters didn't do was mount a campaign to overturn the result and for a re-run of the election on the basis that the majority for Labour was "only" a million or so votes. Get up a public online petition to have it re-run on the retrospective basis that elections can only be won on a specific majority. Organise protests about the result on the streets. Mount a spiteful Social Media campaign, calling into question the mental state and social background of those who had voted Labour. Have a handful of people, who's great wealth had been derived from a Tory government, finance and mount a high court case, on the surface supposedly about constitutional matters but in reality designed to (hopefully) stop Labour forming a government. Or at least force it to form one that was barely recognisable as different from that they had just defeated. Insist that NL put it's detailed policy plans before Parliament and the HoL, which would then be subjected to a vote/agreement before enabling them to be implemented. Mount a legal campaign in Eire to get a pronouncement from the ECJ that the election result could be revoked at any stage.

Once we are out of the EU you and those of similar views are quite entitled to campaign for the UK to rejoin. Good luck with that one. I suspect that if the referendum had been about should Britain join you would be a fairly lonely man.

Parliament voted 6 to 1 for a national referendum "Should the U.K. Remain in the EU", YES/NO. The winning result deemed to be on a simple majority. It was the largest electoral event in the history of the UK. The vote was to leave. The idea that it was "an opinion poll" is risible and we all know it.

I have trouble reconciling all the machinations that have been going on with the concept of democracy. Don't you? Isn't it all so very EU? The fickle electorates-are not to be trusted, we know best? In fact, despite the democratic trappings, the whole edifice was designed from the outset to isolate electorates from "The Project". 1975 being the only bite of the cherry the Uk's voters have actually had until recently. That one being the petulant Wilson government asking if you wanted to stay in!

But - back to the OP? Do you really want Tony Blair as your figurehead? I'm guessing you probably don't mind. If wrong, accept my apology. IIRC there has been some pretty scraping-the-barrel stuff from one member of this Forum in the past on the subject (appalling IMHO), to the tune of - I welcome the support and solidarity of............" :roll:
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Re: Momentum's leadership - Trotsky and Poum

Postby tsukoui » Sun Jan 08, 2017 6:02 pm

http://www.havanatimes.org/?p=121979

http://www.havanatimes.org/?p=121956

http://www.demsoc.org/participatory-budgeting-in-scotland/

http://techpresident.com/news/wegov/22154/how-german-pirate-partys-liquid-democracy-works

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Re: Momentum's leadership - Trotsky and Poum

Postby tsukoui » Mon Jan 09, 2017 4:08 am

One of the true joys of my job is meeting people lots of people – trustee people, staff people, funder people and especially the people we are here for – client people.
And I have always loved the questions I get: ‘Why are you wearing that tie with that shirt?’; ‘Why can’t you fix the computer?’; ‘What sanctions would you impose on Russia for taking over Crimea?’
But the one I often get when introduced as the Chief Executive, and one that I have struggled to answer, is ‘So, what do you do then?’
This is a question that usually flummoxes me, even after 16 years doing this role. My initial response is often ‘Well, I’m the Chief Exec’, which is all too often met by a quizzical look and the follow up of ‘Yes, but what do you do?’
(I suspect many staff secretly want to ask me ‘What’s the point of you, then?’ Especially those who have worked with me a while!)
It was no surprise then that at a lovely open house event last Friday (pictured above, with Jeremy Corbyn MP and David Devoy, Regional Director at St Mungo’s Broadway) where the generosity of spirit and ingenuity of both clients and staff was on show, complete with client artwork, that the question came my way.
And I was able, with a degree of confidence, to give the answer I had practiced in my head a number of times:
‘I am doing three things this year.
‘I am bringing the new St Mungo’s Broadway Trustees together and helping form the merged Board.
‘I am working with the team of directors to get us working as a team.
‘And I am speaking with people, listening to what they say and answering their questions.’
You can imagine my disappointment when the response I got back was: ‘Is that all?’
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Re: Momentum's leadership - Trotsky and Poum

Postby tsukoui » Mon Jan 09, 2017 4:10 am

One of the true joys of my job is meeting people lots of people – trustee people, staff people, funder people and especially the people we are here for – client people.
And I have always loved the questions I get: ‘Why are you wearing that tie with that shirt?’; ‘Why can’t you fix the computer?’; ‘What sanctions would you impose on Russia for taking over Crimea?’
But the one I often get when introduced as the Chief Executive, and one that I have struggled to answer, is ‘So, what do you do then?’
This is a question that usually flummoxes me, even after 16 years doing this role. My initial response is often ‘Well, I’m the Chief Exec’, which is all too often met by a quizzical look and the follow up of ‘Yes, but what do you do?’
(I suspect many staff secretly want to ask me ‘What’s the point of you, then?’ Especially those who have worked with me a while!)
It was no surprise then that at a lovely open house event last Friday (pictured above, with Jeremy Corbyn MP and David Devoy, Regional Director at St Mungo’s Broadway) where the generosity of spirit and ingenuity of both clients and staff was on show, complete with client artwork, that the question came my way.
And I was able, with a degree of confidence, to give the answer I had practiced in my head a number of times:
‘I am doing three things this year.
‘I am bringing the new St Mungo’s Broadway Trustees together and helping form the merged Board.
‘I am working with the team of directors to get us working as a team.
‘And I am speaking with people, listening to what they say and answering their questions.’
You can imagine my disappointment when the response I got back was: ‘Is that all?’
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Re: Momentum's leadership - Trotsky and Poum

Postby tsukoui » Mon Jan 09, 2017 11:48 am

come three weeks after Cllr Nilgun Canver appeared in court charged with perverting the course of justice. She has yet to enter a plea but stepped down from her role as cabinet member for the environment.
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Re: Momentum's leadership - Trotsky and Poum

Postby Tim Drayton » Mon Jan 09, 2017 11:49 am

Londonrake wrote:What the Tories and their supporters didn't do was mount a campaign to overturn the result and for a re-run of the election on the basis that the majority for Labour was "only" a million or so votes.


No, but they continued campaigining in the hope of winning the next election, just as UKIP would have continued to campaign for the next referendum if this one had not narrowly gone their way, and there is nothing wrong with this. It is part and parcel of democracy. In a democracy, everybody is entitled to argue for what they believe in and use all legal means to campaign for it, even if they only have the support of a handful of people. Here we are talking about a postion supported by 48.2% of the electorate, in a referendum where the vote was skewed because there was a high turnout among the very old, who overwhelmingly supported 'no', and a low turnout among the under 25's, who overwhelmingly supported 'yes', and those who support that position have every right to continue campaigning for it using all legal and legitimate means.
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Re: Momentum's leadership - Trotsky and Poum

Postby Tim Drayton » Mon Jan 09, 2017 12:06 pm

PS- In my eyes, Tony Blair is a Thatcherite neo-Liberal and a war criminal, as well as being a hypocrite in many other ways. And yes, the man is mainly interested in lining his own pockets, which is all he has done as Middle East envoy, as you say. What can you do? Rupert Murdoch will not permit Labour to win under any other kind of leader. And you whinge about a lack of democracy. What about the way that a man who is not even a British national and doesn't live in the country is able to act as kingmaker? Is that really democracy? You don't have the first clue where I stand.
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