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Why is Russia so dangerous?

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Re: Why is Russia so dangerous?

Postby supporttheunderdog » Wed Feb 22, 2017 9:03 am

and there is more

http://panamapapers.sueddeutsche.de/articles/57161f07a1bb8d3c3495bc36/

Do not be surprised if the Russian GDP is understated to disguise the rake-off. I.E, what is being stolen does not go through the books. As it is GDP is a lot more than US$ 250 billion but was averaging US$ 877.38 Billion from 1989 until 2015 (with a high of US$ 2231.80 Billion in 2013) and in 2016 is US$1,178 Billion (or so) that is to say close to or at the levels needed to permit such a level of theft.

On hacking, long before this all came topic here, I was talking to an IT guy who was offering services to financial institutions: he was employing lots of Russians who had left Russia following the collapse of the USSR.

He offered his services to one company, who boasted they were unhackable as they has 128 bit encryption: according to him, within a relatively short period of time he was able to present that company with a whole lot of supposedly secured data. Now if people now how to get in, they probably know how to stop others doing the same to them, but as the article says, the chances are it his held in surrogate names.
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Re: Why is Russia so dangerous?

Postby Robin Hood » Wed Feb 22, 2017 9:08 am

supporttheunderdog wrote:News report in the Inde

Clear evidence Russia interfered in 2015 UK election, says former Labour minister
Chris Bryant says there is proof of 'direct, corrupt involvement' by Russia in UK elections


http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/chris-bryant-russia-interfered-uk-election-former-labour-minister-2015-vladimir-putin-cyber-attack-a7592226.html


I’ve read it! So where is the evidence? It’s another case of accusations made by a political nobody but is rather short on the evidence he refers to, when you read the article. Or is it that .......... he has to keep that quiet otherwise he would damage our National Security by alerting the ‘enemy’ to our cyber security expertise? :?

Rather confusing because ......... according to this story ........ The Russians know exactly what is going on ..... everywhere ......so Putin is ruling the World anyway! :roll: :lol:

Clear evidence Russia interfered in 2015 UK election, says former Labour minister

“There is now clear evidence of Russian direct, corrupt involvement in elections in France, in Germany, in the United States of America, and I would argue also in this country,” said Mr Bryant.

“Many believe that some of the highest level decisions affecting security in the United Kingdom, in Germany, in France and in the United States of America are now compromised by Russian infiltration.”

The head of the UK’s new National Cyber Security Centre, Ciaran Martin, said that “informal” talks had been held with the parties and a programme to protect their sensitive online information will be put in place in the near future.
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Re: Why is Russia so dangerous?

Postby Robin Hood » Wed Feb 22, 2017 9:17 am

supporttheunderdog wrote:and there is more

http://panamapapers.sueddeutsche.de/articles/57161f07a1bb8d3c3495bc36/

Do not be surprised if the Russian GDP is understated to disguise the rake-off. I.E, what is being stolen does not go through the books. As it is GDP is a lot more than US$ 250 billion but was averaging US$ 877.38 Billion from 1989 until 2015 (with a high of US$ 2231.80 Billion in 2013) and in 2016 is US$1,178 Billion (or so) that is to say close to or at the levels needed to permit such a level of theft.

On hacking, long before this all came topic here, I was talking to an IT guy who was offering services to financial institutions: he was employing lots of Russians who had left Russia following the collapse of the USSR.

He offered his services to one company, who boasted they were unhackable as they has 128 bit encryption: according to him, within a relatively short period of time he was able to present that company with a whole lot of supposedly secured data. Now if people now how to get in, they probably know how to stop others doing the same to them, but as the article says, the chances are it his held in surrogate names.


I don't doubt your figures but once again it is mainly guesswork and a personal analysis. Yes it's possible ..... but as you point out, the Russians are past masters at hacking ...... as they write a lot of the OS software. As we have seen in various reports, the security services frequently try to get the designers of these software packages to install 'back-doors' ! :o

So anything is possible ........... we can only guess at what is happening. It is certainly way outside my sphere of knowledge. :wink:
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Re: Why is Russia so dangerous?

Postby Pyrpolizer » Wed Feb 22, 2017 2:15 pm

supporttheunderdog wrote:and there is more

http://panamapapers.sueddeutsche.de/articles/57161f07a1bb8d3c3495bc36/

Do not be surprised if the Russian GDP is understated to disguise the rake-off. I.E, what is being stolen does not go through the books. As it is GDP is a lot more than US$ 250 billion but was averaging US$ 877.38 Billion from 1989 until 2015 (with a high of US$ 2231.80 Billion in 2013) and in 2016 is US$1,178 Billion (or so) that is to say close to or at the levels needed to permit such a level of theft.

On hacking, long before this all came topic here, I was talking to an IT guy who was offering services to financial institutions: he was employing lots of Russians who had left Russia following the collapse of the USSR.

He offered his services to one company, who boasted they were unhackable as they has 128 bit encryption: according to him, within a relatively short period of time he was able to present that company with a whole lot of supposedly secured data. Now if people now how to get in, they probably know how to stop others doing the same to them, but as the article says, the chances are it his held in surrogate names.


That was in Rubles not US$.
Regardless nobody denies there's corruption in Russia. The question is where else in the World the situation is any different?
And whether this corruption can substantiate claims as to "why is Russia so dangerous" which is the subject of this topic. :wink:
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Re: Why is Russia so dangerous?

Postby Robin Hood » Wed Feb 22, 2017 8:22 pm

Pyrpolizer wrote:
supporttheunderdog wrote:and there is more

http://panamapapers.sueddeutsche.de/articles/57161f07a1bb8d3c3495bc36/

Do not be surprised if the Russian GDP is understated to disguise the rake-off. I.E, what is being stolen does not go through the books. As it is GDP is a lot more than US$ 250 billion but was averaging US$ 877.38 Billion from 1989 until 2015 (with a high of US$ 2231.80 Billion in 2013) and in 2016 is US$1,178 Billion (or so) that is to say close to or at the levels needed to permit such a level of theft.

On hacking, long before this all came topic here, I was talking to an IT guy who was offering services to financial institutions: he was employing lots of Russians who had left Russia following the collapse of the USSR.

He offered his services to one company, who boasted they were unhackable as they has 128 bit encryption: according to him, within a relatively short period of time he was able to present that company with a whole lot of supposedly secured data. Now if people now how to get in, they probably know how to stop others doing the same to them, but as the article says, the chances are it his held in surrogate names.


That was in Rubles not US$.
Regardless nobody denies there's corruption in Russia. The question is where else in the World the situation is any different?
And whether this corruption can substantiate claims as to "why is Russia so dangerous" which is the subject of this topic. :wink:


I posted the original as a non-political comment, from a reply to the thread title that just surprised me as to the size of the country and the extent of its assets. It sort of got hi-jacked ......... and I can't even blame Paphitis! :wink: :D
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Re: Why is Russia so dangerous?

Postby Londonrake » Wed Feb 22, 2017 8:56 pm

IMHO, Russia isn't dangerous per se. My concern is purely that it's a powerful dictatorship. Does anybody deny that it's a dictatorship?

History's littered with examples of how dictators have had a tendency towards increasing megalomania, with time. Putin literally holds all of the organs of State within his hands. Moreover, as per Germany post-Versailles, there's a deep feeling of resentment at their collapsed superpower status and earlier vast influence. Nationalism is rife.

Countries, some quite small, which have been the subject of Russian (Soviet) domination for half a century or more now find themselves free to join the likes of NATO, in order to ensure they never find themselves in that situation again. That in itself creates yet more Russian resentment, voiced as their being "surrounded".

None of it generates a warm feeling. :cry:
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Re: Why is Russia so dangerous?

Postby Robin Hood » Thu Feb 23, 2017 8:07 am

Londonrake wrote:IMHO, Russia isn't dangerous per se. My concern is purely that it's a powerful dictatorship. Does anybody deny that it's a dictatorship?

YES, he was voted into power by a large majority, a dictators ceases power and rules directly through fear ...... Putins approval rating among his own people is way above ANY of that achieved by Western Leaders. So ... Dictator NO .... just a strong leader that runs circles around all of his western counterparts.

History's littered with examples of how dictators have had a tendency towards increasing megalomania, with time. Putin literally holds all of the organs of State within his hands. Moreover, as per Germany post-Versailles, there's a deep feeling of resentment at their collapsed superpower status and earlier vast influence. Nationalism is rife.

In your opinion ...... there are not many outward signs of this 'meglomania', except in the MSM? Russia is now a rising power again and is gaining influence Worldwide, that frightens the West because Putin seems to be able to do it without killing people and destroying whole countries. He doesn't need a massive military with 800 military bases in other countries back yards.

Countries, some quite small, which have been the subject of Russian (Soviet) domination for half a century or more now find themselves free to join the likes of NATO, in order to ensure they never find themselves in that situation again. That in itself creates yet more Russian resentment, voiced as their being "surrounded".

Have you ever looked at the disposition of NATO forces around the Russians/Iranians and Chinese
borders? Once again your vision is clouded, me thinks, you see what suits your argument!


None of it generates a warm feeling. :cry:

Certainly not for those threatened by NATO ...... I am waiting for Russian and Chinese battle groups to patrol the Gulf of Mexico, Caribbean and the Eastern and Western seaboards of the USA and to set up purely 'defensive' missile systems that can hit major US cities, from Mexico, Cuba and South American States ...... purely defensive of course, so nothing for the US to worry about! Then we will see how warm a feeling they get! :roll:

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Re: Why is Russia so dangerous?

Postby supporttheunderdog » Thu Feb 23, 2017 8:56 am

[quote="Robin Hood"]STUD:

.....but when the Panama Papers were leaked, they found no references to Putin at all....
[quote]

The Panama papers may not reveal Much about Putin as they involve a "hack" of a particular Panamanian Law firm, Mossack Fonseca, and if Putin did not use that firm for particular arrangements , than nothing would come out.

As it was, about 2 Billion was identified: The Panama Papers point to Sergei Roldugin, a Cello Player, who is reportedly Putin’s best friend. This is not the sort of money a Cello player would normally earn...The trail starts in Panama, passes through Russia, Switzerland and Cyprus – and includes a private ski resort where Putin’s younger daughter, Katerina, got married in 2013.

It was indeed probably not a "Hack" from outside but likely an inside job by a whistle blower within the firm, which pointed out links to various other firms who had been involved in various corporate structuring arrangements, where out of the 72 Cypriot firms acting as intermediaries which were named in the documents, four had been referred to the disciplinary council of the Cyprus Bar Association after failing to comply with the association’s instructions on revealing information.
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Re: Why is Russia so dangerous?

Postby Get Real! » Thu Feb 23, 2017 9:27 am

Londonrake wrote:IMHO, Russia isn't dangerous per se. My concern is purely that it's a powerful dictatorship. Does anybody deny that it's a dictatorship?

Russia is not a dictatorship by any stretch of the imagination and if I were you I'd be more concerned about Britain which besides being immersed neck-deep in war crimes, is parlaying with absolute dictatorships like Saudi Arabia and Turkey, and has recently unashamedly tossed democracy out the window!

:lol: :lol: :lol:
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Re: Why is Russia so dangerous?

Postby Londonrake » Thu Feb 23, 2017 9:09 pm

Get Real! wrote:
Londonrake wrote:IMHO, Russia isn't dangerous per se. My concern is purely that it's a powerful dictatorship. Does anybody deny that it's a dictatorship?

Russia is not a dictatorship by any stretch of the imagination and if I were you I'd be more concerned about Britain which besides being immersed neck-deep in war crimes, is parlaying with absolute dictatorships like Saudi Arabia and Turkey, and has recently unashamedly tossed democracy out the window! :


You think I'm wrong? My imagination has been overstretched?

You believe that Vladimir Putin is a democrat? Answerable to the Duma and subject to the sort of checks and balances that are routinely found in the West? He will likely be out of office at some point in the not too distant future then?

Well, it's early days of course. There is an opposition ( :lol: ) and a degree of free speech. So he certainly isn't a Kim Jong-un, or even a Bashir Assad (another democrat :lol: )

He does seem to me though to rule by executive authority. Moreover, he gives the distinct impression of having absolute control of all aspects of the State. Furthermore, quite a few people who have been openly critical seem to have either disappeared, been banged up on charges of "tax evasion" or, in the more extreme examples, have been found to suffer from a sudden attack of bullet hole in the head or radiation-induced colic (International branches available).

I'm sure it will all come right in the end.

I have to apologise for not understanding some of your comments about other people. This is about Russia - yes? :?
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