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THE DEATH OF THE POUND IS IMMINENT

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Re: THE DEATH OF THE POUND IS IMMINENT

Postby Robin Hood » Sat Apr 01, 2017 2:54 pm

Tim Drayton wrote:Precisely. How much better for a continent of people with a shared history, culture and values to stand together in common purpose against external threats, rather than returning to the state of being divided and constantly at war with one another that once prevailed for centuries.


Wasn't all that security in Europe, due to the presence of NATO ? :wink:
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Re: THE DEATH OF THE POUND IS IMMINENT

Postby miltiades » Sat Apr 01, 2017 3:23 pm

The late President Charles de Gaulle rejected Britain's application to join the Common Market twice with the famous word NON. Wilson and Brown tried in vain. de Gaulle knew something we did not know, in that we are a nation of little Englanders, we don't want to be closely associated with our European neighbours, all bloody frogs and krauts the rest just bloody foreigners !!

I remember well the late 60s and the efforts by our then Labour government to join the Common Market as it was then known. Ted Heath succeeded in 1972 leading to our membership in 1973.
Time flies .....
LONG LIVE THE EU !
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Re: THE DEATH OF THE POUND IS IMMINENT

Postby Londonrake » Sat Apr 01, 2017 4:09 pm

miltiades wrote:The late President Charles de Gaulle rejected Britain's application to join the Common Market twice with the famous word NON. Wilson and Brown tried in vain. de Gaulle knew something we did not know, in that we are a nation of little Englanders, we don't want to be closely associated with our European neighbours, all bloody frogs and krauts the rest just bloody foreigners !!

I remember well the late 60s and the efforts by our then Labour government to join the Common Market as it was then known. Ted Heath succeeded in 1972 leading to our membership in 1973.
Time flies .....
LONG LIVE THE EU !


I think De Gaulle's reasons for his vetoes were as much to do with establishing France's dominance in Europe at the time as antipathy to the UK. He also harboured a great deal of resentment about how he was subordinated by the US/UK during WW2. So, in fact, it could be argued that it was more a case of his racism.

The UK does want to be closely associated with Europe. It just doesn't want to become an EU council chamber. We're not leaving Europe, we're part of the continent. We're leaving a political organisation, dominated by Germany, whose clear intent is the ever increasing centralisation of power in the hands of a political (and partially unelected/unrepresentative) elite.

Heath gave away the family jewels to join. Desperate for the historical kudos. It's a great regret that he isn't alive today.

I agree, long live the EU. It's destruction wouldn't serve anybody's interests this side of Moscow/Washington.

My view is that making your own way in the World doesn't deserve the sobriquet of "Little". Quite the opposite, actually.

I also disagree with your view on the British attitude to foreigners. TBH I think they are far more tolerant and welcoming than many countries in Europe. Over a third of the population of London, for instance, were born outside the U.K. That's 3,000,000+ people.
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Re: THE DEATH OF THE POUND IS IMMINENT

Postby miltiades » Mon Apr 03, 2017 8:43 am

Sterling holding on in overnight trading, currently at 1.175 to the euro and 1.255 to the dollar.
Has sterling absorbed the brexit reality and steadied it self ? Nobody can predict the levels over the next few months or indeed over the next two years when the UK will be out of the EU. Interesting times ahead at least for those that follow currency trends.

Interesting to note that barely a week gone by and there is speculation of ....war over Gibraltar !!! Ludicrous to say the least !!! None other mind you that Michael Howard an ex Conservative leader now Lord Howard.
"A senior Tory has been criticised for saying the prime minister would defend Gibraltar in the same way as Margaret Thatcher defended the Falklands."
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-39472207
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Re: THE DEATH OF THE POUND IS IMMINENT

Postby Londonrake » Mon Apr 03, 2017 9:42 am

At the time much was made of the fact that the Conservative government gave the impression in the early 80s it had lost interest in the Falklands. It was postulated, that led directly to the Argentinian invasion (35 years ago today). The Fascist military junta believing their occupation of the islands would be wrapped up in UN prevarication/diplomatic red-tape and eventually accepted as de facto. I imagine the current UK government doesn't want to repeat that mistake with Gibraltar and are making their position clear.

I think the idea of some sort of direct military action by the Spanish is extremely fanciful. They have other options. However, 10,000 Spaniards work on the Rock. A fact that will surely weigh heavily on their minds. Repeating Franco's tactic and closing what will become a border again isn't going to win any plaudits at home.

It's often the case that when any government, anywhere finds itself in difficult circumstances and extremely unpopular domestically it will look for a Johnny Foreigner to distract attention and beef up "National Unity". Spanish governments have been doing that with Gibraltar since as long as I can remember. As unpopular Argentinian governments still do with "Las Malvinas".

Gibraltar has been a British territory since before there was an independent America. The Spanish are hypocritical in that they hold the enclaves of Ceuta and Melilla, in North Africa along with the islands of Alhucemas, Velez and Perejil. Morocco has repeatedly called for their return, to no avail. That of course is a different matter though. :roll:
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Re: THE DEATH OF THE POUND IS IMMINENT

Postby Tim Drayton » Mon Apr 03, 2017 10:00 am

miltiades wrote:Sterling holding on in overnight trading, currently at 1.175 to the euro and 1.255 to the dollar.
Has sterling absorbed the brexit reality and steadied it self ? Nobody can predict the levels over the next few months or indeed over the next two years when the UK will be out of the EU. Interesting times ahead at least for those that follow currency trends.

Interesting to note that barely a week gone by and there is speculation of ....war over Gibraltar !!! Ludicrous to say the least !!! None other mind you that Michael Howard an ex Conservative leader now Lord Howard.
"A senior Tory has been criticised for saying the prime minister would defend Gibraltar in the same way as Margaret Thatcher defended the Falklands."
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-39472207


Britain hasn't even left yet, and already there is talk of war in Europe once more. The European Union has worked the miracle of bringing peace, stability and prosperity to what had been a war-torn continent for nigh on five centuries. I hope we do not go back there again.
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Re: THE DEATH OF THE POUND IS IMMINENT

Postby Londonrake » Mon Apr 03, 2017 10:36 am

Tim Drayton wrote:
miltiades wrote:Sterling holding on in overnight trading, currently at 1.175 to the euro and 1.255 to the dollar.
Has sterling absorbed the brexit reality and steadied it self ? Nobody can predict the levels over the next few months or indeed over the next two years when the UK will be out of the EU. Interesting times ahead at least for those that follow currency trends.

Interesting to note that barely a week gone by and there is speculation of ....war over Gibraltar !!! Ludicrous to say the least !!! None other mind you that Michael Howard an ex Conservative leader now Lord Howard.
"A senior Tory has been criticised for saying the prime minister would defend Gibraltar in the same way as Margaret Thatcher defended the Falklands."
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-39472207


Britain hasn't even left yet, and already there is talk of war in Europe once more. The European Union has worked the miracle of bringing peace, stability and prosperity to what had been a war-torn continent for nigh on five centuries. I hope we do not go back there again.


"Talk of war" is rubbish. You attempt to inflate a comment by one political has-been into something on the scale of a national call up and defence for membership of what's in essence a corrupt, ever more inward-looking bureaucratic dictatorship. Moreover the idea that the EU is all that's stood between European countries going to war with each other is risible. :roll: The EU brought Gibraltar into the equation, not the UK.
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Re: THE DEATH OF THE POUND IS IMMINENT

Postby Tim Drayton » Mon Apr 03, 2017 10:50 am

Londonrake wrote:
Tim Drayton wrote:
miltiades wrote:Sterling holding on in overnight trading, currently at 1.175 to the euro and 1.255 to the dollar.
Has sterling absorbed the brexit reality and steadied it self ? Nobody can predict the levels over the next few months or indeed over the next two years when the UK will be out of the EU. Interesting times ahead at least for those that follow currency trends.

Interesting to note that barely a week gone by and there is speculation of ....war over Gibraltar !!! Ludicrous to say the least !!! None other mind you that Michael Howard an ex Conservative leader now Lord Howard.
"A senior Tory has been criticised for saying the prime minister would defend Gibraltar in the same way as Margaret Thatcher defended the Falklands."
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-39472207


Britain hasn't even left yet, and already there is talk of war in Europe once more. The European Union has worked the miracle of bringing peace, stability and prosperity to what had been a war-torn continent for nigh on five centuries. I hope we do not go back there again.


"Talk of war" is rubbish. You attempt to inflate a comment by one political has-been into something on the scale of a national call up and defence for membership of what's in essence a corrupt, ever more inward-looking bureaucratic dictatorship. Moreover the idea that the EU is all that's stood between European countries going to war with each other is risible. :roll: The EU brought Gibraltar into the equation, not the UK.


"A senior Tory has been criticised for saying the prime minister would defend Gibraltar in the same way as Margaret Thatcher defended the Falklands."

That is talk of war.
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Re: THE DEATH OF THE POUND IS IMMINENT

Postby Londonrake » Mon Apr 03, 2017 11:19 am

Tim Drayton wrote:"A senior Tory has been criticised for saying the prime minister would defend Gibraltar in the same way as Margaret Thatcher defended the Falklands."

That is talk of war.


Which sounds very dramatic. However, the reality is Howard has absolutely no say in governance nowadays. He speaks for himself, an individual. As you point out, his jingoism has been widely criticised, particularly in the UK . His comment is no more sabre-rattling or "talk of war" though than NATO saying that it would defend the Baltic states in the event of Russian hostilities. It's hyperbole.

Spain and the UK are not going to war over Gibraltar. Period.
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Re: THE DEATH OF THE POUND IS IMMINENT

Postby Tim Drayton » Mon Apr 03, 2017 11:34 am

When was there last talk of war between the UK and another European country, even if only hyperbole?
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