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BREXIT Countdown - Bye Bye Britain, Bye Bye!

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Re: BREXIT Countdown - Bye Bye Britain, Bye Bye!

Postby Schnauzer » Tue Mar 28, 2017 10:58 am

All this 'Doom and Gloom' may suit those who are prone to capitulate in the face of adversity BUT, perhaps a gentle reminder of the 'Bulldog Spirit' of the 'Brits' when the chips are down, might prompt the 'Prophets of Doom' to hold sway for a bit and give the 'Brexiteers' a little time to test the waters.

The biggest problem I can see (about the 'Bulldog Revival') is the fact that there are so many foreigners in the UK, the poor old 'Brits' may feel outnumbered and THAT could be the greatest obstacle to the regeneration needed to overcome future difficulties.

Do not glorify in the prospect of seeing a nation fall, as 'Aesop' illustrated in one of his famous fables (the sick Lion and the Wily Fox) "It's easy to laugh at fallen Majesty"......... there are those (myself included) that have no love for the 'Brits' on account of the great damage they have done to many nations over the years, yet I cannot lend myself to the hopeful opinions of those who seem to be glorifying the prospect of the hardships which may follow yet another 'Political Move' which could explode in the face of those whom (at present) are confident of success.

Time will tell, the 'Rats' are already making plans to 'Abandon Ship', I do not think it makes much difference according to the state of the world currently, it looks like the general populations of the world are in the shit whichever direction they sail off to,'Good Luck' to one and all. 8)
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Re: BREXIT Countdown - Bye Bye Britain, Bye Bye!

Postby Pyrpolizer » Tue Mar 28, 2017 12:24 pm

Schnauzer wrote:... it looks like the general populations of the world are in the shit whichever direction they sail off to,'Good Luck' to one and all... 8)


The so called "west" just got used in living wayyyy beyond their labor's worth, while at the same time other nations provide them with goods and services produced under conditions of nearly "slave salaries". The Americans push the Arabs to sell their oil at ridiculous prices for the western industry to keep moving.
All these are going to change sooner or later, so yes I agree with you
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Re: BREXIT Countdown - Bye Bye Britain, Bye Bye!

Postby Londonrake » Tue Mar 28, 2017 1:08 pm

Pyrpolizer wrote:. The Americans push the Arabs to sell their oil at ridiculous prices for the western industry to keep moving.


That's not why the price of oil has plummeted.
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Re: BREXIT Countdown - Bye Bye Britain, Bye Bye!

Postby Robin Hood » Tue Mar 28, 2017 5:38 pm

I find you guys (and girls) :roll: quite amazing. You seem to be concentrating on your perceived opinion that the UK will collapse without being a member of the EU. The EU is hardly an example of financial or social stability, with the Euro teetering on the edge of collapse according to many economists and financial people. Also, like the UK they are having ever increasing problems with immigrant and open borders will be abandoned. The growth in the EU is lower than that of the UK and unemployment is higher.

Have you looked over your shoulders at what the effect of the UK leaving will be on the EU? Why do they not want the UK or any other States to leave the EU without punishing them for doing so? Because they could just carry on without the dubious ‘benefits’ of being a member ............. the only benefits are the trade deals between countries!

To just assume that the problems will only affect the UK and then ignore the ample evidence that says the EU is the sinking ship not the lifeboat, is rather a naive approach. These block economic entities are falling apart and the EU is no exception. The world is moving toward more bilateral agreements than the TPP and NAFTA type arrangements which, when you read reports on them, are actually very little to do with trade and are in fact designed to allow big corporations to override National laws and have been a disaster for many that have joined them. A corporation can sue a national government if their regulations affect their profits! Anyway, if you have bi-lateral agreements with standards/regulations agreed between Nations ........ who needs Junker and his very expensive bureaucracy?

You only have to look at the southern states of the EU to see how a blanket trade deal or financial structure applied to all, is so often very detrimental for many States. Greece being a good example and Italy, Spain, Portugal are not far behind.

The opinion expressed by the Deutsche Bank that the Pound will lose 15% is coming from a Bank that has real problems as it is on the edge of needing a bail-out and its derivative debt is massive, .... something like a third of the banking derivative liability World wide. A wobble in the financial system which is on the cards and it will collapse and bring the EU banking system down with it. On the radio today they were relating to a previous banking event, the UK’s exit from the ERM being identified by the ‘experts’ as being a disaster. Some banks quit the UK and went to Frankfurt ............. they came back to the UK within 18 months. It didn’t work ............. the World is bigger than just the EU.

Exactly what the British Bases have to do with membership of the EU is a bit baffling. They exist by treaty. Get rid of them and Cyprus would need to foot the bill for the ‘divorce’ ..... just like the EU Commission says applies to the UK’s exit from the EU. Although I doubt NATO would allow that to happen.

Pyrpoliser:

The so called "west" just got used in living wayyyy beyond their labor's worth, while at the same time other nations provide them with goods and services produced under conditions of nearly "slave salaries". The Americans push the Arabs to sell their oil at ridiculous prices for the western industry to keep moving.


That is a very simplistic a view. The cost of labour is relative. In the Northern parts of the Europe and other developed societies, the cost of living is significantly higher than say in China, Thailand or India. The wages they get may seem very low by our standards but not when compared to the cost of living. These countries have no health or social care systems, no pensions, no holiday pay, no sick pay ..... and that is what will change. Trump has already said he will introduce tariffs to balance for these lower labour costs and lack of workers benefits. This simple fact, as Trump has found out, cost the countries with higher wages millions of jobs as their own super corporations moved the manufacturing jobs abroad. What did we get in return? Often goods which are sub-standard when compared with those made in the western countries.

So I agree with you ,things will change and when these cheap foreign sources of labour see their profits going back to the more industrialised western countries, they will have two options ......... pay the tariffs or pay higher wages!

LR is correct about oil prices. Surely with a glut of oil certain States are feeling the pinch especially those in the ME who have no other industries. In these countries it has never been the people that benefitted from oil, it was the big US oil companies that made the big money and paid off all the Arab Royalty to keep the people down as this was a better deal than encouraging democracy! Having oil priced exclusively in Dollars has also been a great benefit to the US and a reason for much of the conflict in the region.

IMO: I still believe that in the long run the UK will benefit from not being a member of the EU ..... as the days of the EU are numbered anyway! :wink:
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Re: BREXIT Countdown - Bye Bye Britain, Bye Bye!

Postby Pyrpolizer » Tue Mar 28, 2017 10:07 pm

Robin Hood wrote:

That is a very simplistic a view. The cost of labour is relative. In the Northern parts of the Europe and other developed societies, the cost of living is significantly higher than say in China, Thailand or India. The wages they get may seem very low by our standards but not when compared to the cost of living. These countries have no health or social care systems, no pensions, no holiday pay, no sick pay ..... and that is what will change. Trump has already said he will introduce tariffs to balance for these lower labour costs and lack of workers benefits. This simple fact, as Trump has found out, cost the countries with higher wages millions of jobs as their own super corporations moved the manufacturing jobs abroad. What did we get in return? Often goods which are sub-standard when compared with those made in the western countries.

So I agree with you ,things will change and when these cheap foreign sources of labour see their profits going back to the more industrialised western countries, they will have two options ......... pay the tariffs or pay higher wages!

LR is correct about oil prices. Surely with a glut of oil certain States are feeling the pinch especially those in the ME who have no other industries. In these countries it has never been the people that benefitted from oil, it was the big US oil companies that made the big money and paid off all the Arab Royalty to keep the people down as this was a better deal than encouraging democracy! Having oil priced exclusively in Dollars has also been a great benefit to the US and a reason for much of the conflict in the region.

IMO: I still believe that in the long run the UK will benefit from not being a member of the EU ..... as the days of the EU are numbered anyway! :wink:



I intentionally used the term "labor's worth" to set it in absolute terms irrelevant of the cost of living.
For example the worth of work produced by a school teacher either he lives in the US or England or Greece or India is exactly the same.
Then comes the question how much does s/he get paid for that work. You claim that this depends on the cost of living according to the country the person resides. Of course it does but can you seriously support the argument that the cost of living in Greece is 1/6th of that in the UK to justify a 1/6th salary for a school teacher living in Greece??
We could extend this example to compare like for like with a school teacher living in China.

As for the price of oil. I know what's going on in the ME, and how the sheikhs and Kings in collaboration with multinational oil companies under huge military protection from the US do. I lived and worked for a couple of years in the Gulf too...
My point is that oil was and still is, so much controlled that it's actually forced to sell well below what is worth. Once again can you seriously claim that the worth of oil which is something NOT renewable is about the same as that of milk??
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Re: BREXIT Countdown - Bye Bye Britain, Bye Bye!

Postby GreekIslandGirl » Tue Mar 28, 2017 10:23 pm

Pyrpolizer wrote: ...Of course it does but can you seriously support the argument that the cost of living in Greece is 1/6th of that in the UK to justify a 1/6th salary for a school teacher living in Greece??


I don't know where you got those figures from. Recent reports suggest that nearly half the UK teaching force (schools and universities) are employed on zero hour contracts or will be soon enough. That means no paid holidays or sick leave and you only get paid for the hour you teach and not anything else. The one teacher I know in Greece gets nearly 1000 euros per month (plus maternity leave, sick days, holidays). This is about the same as a UK teacher if they were lucky to get teaching for some hours every day (but no maternity, sick or holiday pay).

P.S. Also, the teacher in Greece has a smallholding and grows all her own fruit and veg. Plus her mother-in-law looks after the kids (free). This isn't the sort of support that is routinely available in the UK.
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Re: BREXIT Countdown - Bye Bye Britain, Bye Bye!

Postby Pyrpolizer » Tue Mar 28, 2017 11:12 pm

GreekIslandGirl wrote:
Pyrpolizer wrote: ...Of course it does but can you seriously support the argument that the cost of living in Greece is 1/6th of that in the UK to justify a 1/6th salary for a school teacher living in Greece??


I don't know where you got those figures from. Recent reports suggest that nearly half the UK teaching force (schools and universities) are employed on zero hour contracts or will be soon enough. That means no paid holidays or sick leave and you only get paid for the hour you teach and not anything else. The one teacher I know in Greece gets nearly 1000 euros per month (plus maternity leave, sick days, holidays). This is about the same as a UK teacher if they were lucky to get teaching for some hours every day (but no maternity, sick or holiday pay).

P.S. Also, the teacher in Greece has a smallholding and grows all her own fruit and veg. Plus her mother-in-law looks after the kids (free). This isn't the sort of support that is routinely available in the UK.


The one you know must be on top. With today's austerity measures their starting monthly salaries in Athens is only 600 Euros. (it was about 750 before)
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Re: BREXIT Countdown - Bye Bye Britain, Bye Bye!

Postby Robin Hood » Wed Mar 29, 2017 5:25 pm

Why not just quote unreasonable behavior or irreconcilable differences? Let them keep the joint property interests in return for a clean break divorce and no maintenance! :roll: :D
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Re: BREXIT Countdown - Bye Bye Britain, Bye Bye!

Postby GreekIslandGirl » Wed Mar 29, 2017 6:25 pm

Off to a flying start:

Sylvie Goulard: Who wants to sign a trade deal with a country that has just renounced its previous agreements?

Testing times for British Diplomacy and the PR machines will be in overdrive to convince everyone the tearing up of contracts and flouncing off was .... indeed .... a 'one off'. What what! :D
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Re: BREXIT Countdown - Bye Bye Britain, Bye Bye!

Postby Pyrpolizer » Wed Mar 29, 2017 10:24 pm

Robin Hood wrote:Why not just quote unreasonable behavior or irreconcilable differences? Let them keep the joint property interests in return for a clean break divorce and no maintenance! :roll: :D


Too repetitive imo and possibly contradictory on the main issue. Only God knows how this "deep and special partnership" won't be "cherry picking" on the four freedoms themselves.

That is why the United Kingdom does not seek membership of the single market: we understand and respect your position that the four freedoms of the single market are indivisible and there can be no “cherry picking”.

As I have said, the Government of the United Kingdom wants to agree a deep and special partnership between the UK and the EU
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