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Little Englanders, we tried to tell you!

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Re: Little Englanders, we tried to tell you!

Postby Londonrake » Sun May 21, 2017 4:46 pm

Tim Drayton wrote:Sentiment changes. Winds change direction. This is what some of us are campaigning for. For the sake of the country.


Current evidence seems to suggest that a lot of people who voted Remain are now reconciled and have moved their views in the direction of supporting their country. I think that's pragmatic and commendable.

IMHO, all the various nefarious plots and endless "campaigns" merely reinforce the impression that a divided Britain is an easy target for the Commission. A total misunderstanding on their part of the country's character.

Moreover, it does now seem that some people want a total disaster, merely to vindicate their view. I find that attitude reprehensible.

I'm very cautious when it comes to this sort of thing but it's becoming increasingly difficult to imagine a scenario where the UK remains in the EU.
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Re: Little Englanders, we tried to tell you!

Postby Londonrake » Sun May 21, 2017 4:54 pm

Robin Hood wrote:
Tim Drayton wrote:Sentiment changes. Winds change direction. This is what some of us are campaigning for. For the sake of the country.


Fancy words but what exactly are you campaigning for? :roll:

'You' might be sailing into a substantial headwind as I see that the 'Wrinkly Little Englanders' are deserting TM and her lead over JC is slipping, as she is threatening the well being of The Bank of Mum-and-Dad ...... no Nigel this time to vote for so maybe JC will be picking up their votes this time round as he is making the right noises? :wink: :D :D


Do I need to buy a hat? :lol:

I still find it difficult to imagine the UK under the control of Corbyn/McDonnell/Abbott and don't believe it will ever happen (I understand your motives in the matter - policy).

Corbyn's approach seems to be to throw money at everything. All taken from the "rich" and let's not look too close at the figures, or the effects of introducing such draconian taxation. :roll: As though the country hasn't been there before?

Perhaps May should have done the same?

BTW. Do you really think that UKIP voters will switch, en masse, to Corbyn? :?
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Re: Little Englanders, we tried to tell you!

Postby Tim Drayton » Sun May 21, 2017 5:09 pm

Good question. Why isn't the £350 million for the NHS promise in the Tory manifesto?

https://uk.yahoo.com/news/boris-johnson ... 45226.html

The great thing about democracy and freedom of speech is that when mendacious buffoons hold public office, those astute enough to see through them can open their mouths and try to expose them. So, no, I will not 'zip it'.
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Re: Little Englanders, we tried to tell you!

Postby Londonrake » Sun May 21, 2017 5:26 pm

Tim Drayton wrote:Good question. Why isn't the £350 million for the NHS promise in the Tory manifesto?

https://uk.yahoo.com/news/boris-johnson ... 45226.html

The great thing about democracy and freedom of speech is that when mendacious buffoons hold public office, those astute enough to see through them can open their mouths and try to expose them. So, no, I will not 'zip it'.


Of course, I never expected you to. I doubt you will ever change your view and resort to thinking of what's best for your old country. You are clearly a very cosmopolitan and "globalised" person and I appreciate these must be frustrating and disappointing times for you.

I'm very pleased to read that, as you concede, we are democrats and as such must of course accept the implications of electoral outcomes, whether we find them personally disagreeable or not. Agreed? :wink: We can always vote for alternatives in the future. Or even run on that ticket.

Much is made of the inept "NHS" bus but of course they were making a point, rather than cementing policy. It's some time before the £10 billion or so a year the UK currently contributes to the EU coffers will be available for other use. That perhaps would be a better time to talk about where it goes, rather than the next couple of years, when it's obviously still heading to Brussels?
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Re: Little Englanders, we tried to tell you!

Postby Tim Drayton » Mon May 22, 2017 7:48 am

I believe that leaving the EU will be disastrous for the UK. I believe that staying in the EU is the best thing for my country to do.
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Re: Little Englanders, we tried to tell you!

Postby Londonrake » Mon May 22, 2017 9:24 am

Tim Drayton wrote:I believe that leaving the EU will be disastrous for the UK. I believe that staying in the EU is the best thing for my country to do.


And you had your vote.

That's one of the problems with the EU. Despite, time and again, when people are actually asked their opinion (quite a rarity) and clearly show their opposition to something, it happens anyway. Like yourself,they believe they know best you see. It isn't democracy, it's dictatorial.

"If they say Yes, 'on we go'. If they say No we will say 'we continue'."

"When it becomes serious, you have to lie."

"I'm ready to be insulted as being insufficiently democratic, but I want to be serious........ I am for secret, dark debates"

"Of course there will be transfers of sovereignty. But would I be intelligent to draw the attention of public opinion to this fact?"

Junker. EU arrogance personified.
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Re: Little Englanders, we tried to tell you!

Postby Robin Hood » Mon May 22, 2017 9:43 am

Tim Drayton wrote:I believe that leaving the EU will be disastrous for the UK. I believe that staying in the EU is the best thing for my country to do.


You believe ...... so it is your opinion only? We all have beliefs/opinions but, if you have evidence rather than just an unsubstantiated opinion, I would listen to your argument. :|

I believe it could snow in Limassol today ..... of course, that is only my opinion but I have no evidence to justify my belief ! :roll: :wink:
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Re: Little Englanders, we tried to tell you!

Postby CBBB » Mon May 22, 2017 10:19 am

Robin Hood wrote:
Tim Drayton wrote:I believe that leaving the EU will be disastrous for the UK. I believe that staying in the EU is the best thing for my country to do.


You believe ...... so it is your opinion only? We all have beliefs/opinions but, if you have evidence rather than just an unsubstantiated opinion, I would listen to your argument. :|

I believe it could snow in Limassol today ..... of course, that is only my opinion but I have no evidence to justify my belief ! :roll: :wink:


What is your evidence that proves Tim's believe is misplaced?
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Re: Little Englanders, we tried to tell you!

Postby Get Real! » Mon May 22, 2017 10:51 am

Britain should be just fine with or without the EU. Any teething problems during the transition period shouldn’t last very long.

Even if Britain was to have her GDP cut by 30% for a few years so what?

It would simply mean that Britain only gets to waste less on arms for a few years until it’s back up again!

Wanna save some money Britain? Pull out of Iraq. Wanna save some more? Pull out of Afghanistan… pull out of a dozen other countries in Africa if the need arises!

The thing with wealthy countries like Britain is that they have many options if they need to economize because they’re already wasting billions (perhaps trillions) on many luxuries that they can easily do without.

I wouldn’t worry about Britain if I were you my whingeing British friends, for the average British family hardly ever benefits whether the country makes 1.3 trillion or 1.8 trillion profit at the end of the year!

It all goes to waste on arms and politician’s pockets. :lol:
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Re: Little Englanders, we tried to tell you!

Postby Tim Drayton » Mon May 22, 2017 11:30 am

Londonrake wrote:
Tim Drayton wrote:I believe that leaving the EU will be disastrous for the UK. I believe that staying in the EU is the best thing for my country to do.


And you had your vote.

That's one of the problems with the EU. Despite, time and again, when people are actually asked their opinion (quite a rarity) and clearly show their opposition to something, it happens anyway. Like yourself,they believe they know best you see. It isn't democracy, it's dictatorial.



We have been round and round this path time and time again. Since you will not explain where you differ with my understanding of democracy, we end up getting nowhere and coming back to this same argument.

For example, I had a vote in the UK general election in 2015, and voted Labour. As somebody who believes in social justice, I thought if the Conservatives - the party that defends the interests of the rich and powerful - won, this would be disastrous for most people in the country as inequality, which has been growing ever since the days of Thatcher, would become even greater and the poorest and most vulnerable members of society would suffer. The Conservatives DID in fact win the election with an outright majority. I ACCEPT that this was the result of the election. However, I was not happy at the time with the result, I thought it would be disastrous for most people in the country (and I consider that opinion to have been vindicated by subsequent events) and continued at that time to support Labour as a parliamentary party in the UK. In a democracy, yes, you have to ACCEPT the result as long as it was obtained under the prevailing rules and was not rigged; however, you do not then have to 'zip it'. In a democracy, as a Labour supporter (at least at that time) I was perfectly entitled to continue to support Labour, to express my opinion that the election result was disastrous and to criticise the Conservative government and its policies.

Equally I accept that the referendum result was in favour of 'leave' by 17,410,742 : 16,141,241. I was of the opinion that leaving the EU will be disastrous for the UK and remain of that opinion. In a democracy, just because I was narrowly on the losing side, it does not mean that I have to 'zip it'. I believe that this was a terrible vote for the country and I am quite entitled to voice that opinion. Unless you can explain what issue you have with this reasoning, we are going to go round and round the same mulberry bush in perpetuity.
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