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The UK's EU referendum was rigged !!!!

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Re: The UK's EU referendum was rigged !!!!

Postby Tim Drayton » Wed May 17, 2017 2:46 pm

Robin Hood wrote:
Tim Drayton wrote:The can of worms waiting to be opened?

Is the Brexit Vote Legitimate If Russia Influenced the Outcome?

http://www.newsweek.com/brexit-russia-p ... ate-527260


More fairy tails for gullible fools! :roll: You post this but do you honestly believe it? :?:


I believe that if the legitimacy of the American Presidential election is challenged - and that now seriously appears to be on the cards - it is only a matter of time before the above question is asked. By the way, can I remind you that you started this thread suggesting that the UK referendum was rigged? It has even had me wondering if the Kremlin has made yet another U-turn and is now supporting a second referendum.
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Re: The UK's EU referendum was rigged !!!!

Postby Londonrake » Wed May 17, 2017 3:11 pm

Tim Drayton wrote:By the way, can I remind you that you started this thread suggesting that the UK referendum was rigged? It has even had me wondering if the Kremlin has made yet another U-turn and is now supporting a second referendum.



http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/05 ... officials/
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Re: The UK's EU referendum was rigged !!!!

Postby Robin Hood » Wed May 17, 2017 3:12 pm

Tim Drayton wrote:
Robin Hood wrote:
Tim Drayton wrote:The can of worms waiting to be opened?

Is the Brexit Vote Legitimate If Russia Influenced the Outcome?

http://www.newsweek.com/brexit-russia-p ... ate-527260


More fairy tails for gullible fools! :roll: You post this but do you honestly believe it? :?:


I believe that if the legitimacy of the American Presidential election is challenged - and that now seriously appears to be on the cards - it is only a matter of time before the above question is asked. By the way, can I remind you that you started this thread suggesting that the UK referendum was rigged? It has even had me wondering if the Kremlin has made yet another U-turn and is now supporting a second referendum.


I created the OP just because, for once, it was not being blamed on Putin/Russia.

You can believe what you want about the US elections. I just see a bunch of poor losers (Clinton and The Deep State) determined to bring Trump DOWN, by what ever means. Can't you see this is a scare campaign ? The last thing these people want is Détente between the USA and Russia . If I were Trump I would demand evidence and when it did not appear I would arrest the whole bunch of them and try them all for trying to overthrow the elected President and trying to bring down his government! :roll:

The US has become a laughing stock and is on about the same level as the 'government' in Ukraine! :lol: :lol:
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Re: The UK's EU referendum was rigged !!!!

Postby Robin Hood » Wed May 17, 2017 3:22 pm

LR:
I agree with you on his obvious lack of leadership qualities, who wouldn't? He's no Churchill, that's for sure. But I have to take exception to the other points.


Which points? Or is it a secret? :?

If you are interested, which I somehow doubt, I suggest you read the PLP Manifesto 2017 page 16 on Banking ...... (you may see a few familiar words in there....... like UK Investment Bank and separating commercial and investment banks (Glass Steagal), and also pages 150/151 on Defence. It all makes perfect sense to me ! :roll:
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Re: The UK's EU referendum was rigged !!!!

Postby Robin Hood » Wed May 17, 2017 5:34 pm

Now the propagandised version of what’s going on with the election in the UK ...... it’s them Russians again ..... straight from the pages of Sputnik ............. :nevil:

The Anti-Corbyn Smear Campaign - the UK Tory Establishment Fear Him

Jeremy Corbyn has the Tory establishment in Britain worried as the UK general election approaches on June 8. It is why they are throwing everything at him, every last morsel of mud they can dig up, knowing full well that his manifesto for government, recently leaked to the media, is the most transformational of any Labour leader in a generation.

(Now of course we can read the official Manifesto.)

https://sptnkne.ws/exZH

Quote:

“With recent opinion polls revealing that the gap between Corbyn and Theresa May is narrowing, despite the mud that has and continues to be hurled at him, it may well be the case that the anti-Corbyn smear campaign been so aggressive it has become self-defeating, rebounding against his detractors' cause instead of advancing it.”


Sounds like the same effect of the EU Referendum Remain campaign all over again! Could there be a chance of a surprise reversal of fortune here? :roll: :wink:
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Re: The UK's EU referendum was rigged !!!!

Postby Londonrake » Wed May 17, 2017 7:49 pm

Robin Hood wrote:Now the propagandised version of what’s going on with the election in the UK ...... it’s them Russians again ..... straight from the pages of Sputnik ............. :nevil:

The Anti-Corbyn Smear Campaign - the UK Tory Establishment Fear Him

Jeremy Corbyn has the Tory establishment in Britain worried as the UK general election approaches on June 8. It is why they are throwing everything at him, every last morsel of mud they can dig up, knowing full well that his manifesto for government, recently leaked to the media, is the most transformational of any Labour leader in a generation.

(Now of course we can read the official Manifesto.)

https://sptnkne.ws/exZH

Quote:

“With recent opinion polls revealing that the gap between Corbyn and Theresa May is narrowing, despite the mud that has and continues to be hurled at him, it may well be the case that the anti-Corbyn smear campaign been so aggressive it has become self-defeating, rebounding against his detractors' cause instead of advancing it.”


Sounds like the same effect of the EU Referendum Remain campaign all over again! Could there be a chance of a surprise reversal of fortune here? :roll: :wink:


Well, good luck with that one. :wink:
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Re: The UK's EU referendum was rigged !!!!

Postby Robin Hood » Thu May 18, 2017 6:28 am

LR
Well, good luck with that one. :wink:


That was the attitude of the experts with both the UK Referendum and the US Presidency, they became complacent and convinced by their own propaganda. Then look what happened ? They were proved wrong! So don't bury Jeremy yet ...... he could just end up surprising everyone ..... even himself.

Corbyn says what he will (wants) to do and May does nothing but point out why she thinks every thing he proposed is pie-in-the-sky and has to fail ...... she does not put out a message ..... she just runs down the opposition! That approach has now failed twice in the UK and the US. Just listening to BFBS (BBC) and the 'experts' spouting forth with their opinions and already they are beginning to hedge their bets, that projection of confidence in their appraisals is less so and they are allowing for the possibility of a reversal. :roll: :wink:
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Re: The UK's EU referendum was rigged !!!!

Postby Tim Drayton » Thu May 18, 2017 10:45 am

Robin Hood wrote:
Corbyn says what he will (wants) to do and May does nothing but point out why she thinks every thing he proposed is pie-in-the-sky and has to fail ...... she does not put out a message ..... she just runs down the opposition!


Funny that, because you were pretty ebullient about May as recently as July 12 last year, when you posted:

At least she sounds like she has a plan. Good luck to her, if she can get the people behind her the UK will recover and, IMO will end up as the power behind a new type of Europe as it breaks up into sovereign states again.


cyprus44835-770.html?hilit=she%20has%20a%20plan#p844657

Just curious what lies behind your sudden conversion to ardent Labour supporter.
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Re: The UK's EU referendum was rigged !!!!

Postby Londonrake » Thu May 18, 2017 12:09 pm

Robin Hood wrote:That was the attitude of the experts with both the UK Referendum and the US Presidency, they became complacent and convinced by their own propaganda. Then look what happened ? They were proved wrong! So don't bury Jeremy yet ...... he could just end up surprising everyone ..... even himself.

Corbyn says what he will (wants) to do and May does nothing but point out why she thinks every thing he proposed is pie-in-the-sky and has to fail ...... she does not put out a message ..... she just runs down the opposition! That approach has now failed twice in the UK and the US. Just listening to BFBS (BBC) and the 'experts' spouting forth with their opinions and already they are beginning to hedge their bets, that projection of confidence in their appraisals is less so and they are allowing for the possibility of a reversal. :roll: :wink:


You're really talking about entirely different things.

Polling leading up to both the UK referendum and US election showed that there was very little in it near the events. IIRC, Remain and Clinton were just a few percentage points ahead and in the run up there was never an enormous difference.

Despite the fact that, as you point out, the gap has narrowed, the Tories are still 18% ahead of Labour today.

As far as May just running down the opposition is concerned, that hasn't been the impression I've gotten so far. Although of course that's her job! Today's press seems full of Tory policy initiatives.

One of Corbyn's biggest problems is not that he has the expected Conservative detractors and so-called media bias but that for two years and even during this campaign he's been regularly vilified by his own Parliamentarians.

Nothing would ever surprise me in politics (I still won't believe Brexit, until it actually happens). However, if Corbyn is elected PM then I would be quite willing to eat my hat (if I had one :D ). Whilst I know you are in love with "Peoples' QE" I suspect the economic tsunami which would inevitably follow in the wake of a Corbyn victory would make Brexit look like a tiny ripple. The effect on confidence in the pound would probably be disastrous, for instance. How much of a return would you want, to lend him money?

I would point out that John McDonnell would be Chancellor and Diane Abbott Home Secretary. If you have the time you might want to do a bit of research on those two and imagine the economy and national security/crime in their hands. :shock:

Really though, is the way ahead actually to return to the 70s (we were both there)? Nationalisation on an epic scale. Union powers restored (they have over 100 Trade Union demands in the current Labour Manifesto. Many have been incorporated verbatim). National wage bargaining, secondary picketing, et al. All restored. Sounds like misery for the many and not the few to me. It would be interesting for a while of course. Until, as ever, they drove the economy onto the rocks and ran out of money.

Speaking of which. Corbyn's policy on Brexit seems to be that we will leave but actually stay in. He's stated that he wouldn't accept the situation where there was no trade deal. Clearly then, the EU can offer him whatever it does or doesn't feel like. The same mistake Cameron made when he went to Brussels, with quite a modest list of reforms, before the referendum campaign. They knew he was going to opt for remain, whatever happened. So, he came away without even a fig leaf. They shoulda gone to Specsavers.



I suspect what Tim is suggesting is that you changed horses in mid-stream when it became Putin's policy to support Corbyn. But then, knowing how you are a person who despises the gullible naive and can think outside the box I'm sure that isn't the case at all.
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Re: The UK's EU referendum was rigged !!!!

Postby Robin Hood » Thu May 18, 2017 4:27 pm

Tim Drayton wrote:
Robin Hood wrote:
Corbyn says what he will (wants) to do and May does nothing but point out why she thinks every thing he proposed is pie-in-the-sky and has to fail ...... she does not put out a message ..... she just runs down the opposition!


Funny that, because you were pretty ebullient about May as recently as July 12 last year, when you posted:

At least she sounds like she has a plan. Good luck to her, if she can get the people behind her the UK will recover and, IMO will end up as the power behind a new type of Europe as it breaks up into sovereign states again.


cyprus44835-770.html?hilit=she%20has%20a%20plan#p844657

Just curious what lies behind your sudden conversion to ardent Labour supporter.


It is called having the capacity to revise your opinion as news breaks which you can then compare with a previous opinion based on facts which are later superseded by more recent information. Unlike you I am not driven by a particular dogma or ideology. May, like Trump seemed OK but later events say maybe they are not what they seemed to be. Same applies to Corbyn but he is beginning to get his message over, has a better persona in front of the cameras and when he is interviewed he does not come over as scruffy union rep!

TM, I feel, demonstrates she is too highly strung and is relying too much on attacking Labour policies rather than promoting her own. The Conservatives released their manifesto today although I have not yet read it, but now maybe she will change her MO.

So I revise my views. A bit like when they discovered the earth was not flat after all or when they discovered that the Earth revolved around the Sun ..... not the other way round. My original view was valid at the time but based on different facts and impressions. TM was not going to have an election ..... the she changed her mind because she considered other information ...... the reason she did that, only she knows but it obviously offered an advantage. :roll:
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