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Nth Korea .. there are two sides to every story!

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Nth Korea .. there are two sides to every story!

Postby Robin Hood » Wed Sep 06, 2017 3:24 pm

Now the other side of the story!

How ‘Regime Change’ Wars Led to Korea Crisis - By Robert Parry

The U.S.-led aggressions against Iraq and Libya are two war crimes that keep on costing, with their grim examples of what happens to leaders who get rid of WMDs driving the scary showdown with North Korea, writes Robert Parry.

Lessons Learned

Meanwhile, back in North Korea, the young dictator Kim Jong Un was taking all this history in. According to numerous sources, he concluded that his and North Korea’s only safeguard would be a viable nuclear deterrent to stave off another U.S.-sponsored “regime change” war — with him meeting a similar fate as was dealt to Hussein and Gaddafi.

Since then, Kim and his advisers have made clear that the surrender of North Korea’s small nuclear arsenal is off the table. They make the understandable point that the United States has shown bad faith in other cases in which leaders have given up their WMDs in compliance with international demands and then saw their countries invaded and faced grisly executions themselves.

Now, the world faces a predicament in which an inexperienced and intemperate President Trump confronts a crisis that his two predecessors helped to create and make worse. Trump has threatened “fire and fury” like the world has never seen, suggesting a nuclear strike on North Korea, which, in turn, has vowed to retaliate.

Millions of people on the Korean peninsula and Japan – and possibly elsewhere – could die in such a conflagration. The world’s economy could be severely shaken, given Japan’s and South Korea’s industrial might and the size of their consumer markets.

If such a horror does come to pass, the U.S. government and the U.S. mainstream media will surely revert to their standard explanation that Kim was simply “crazy” and brought this destruction on himself. Trump’s liberal critics also might attack Trump for bungling the diplomacy.

But the truth is that many of Washington’s elite policymakers – both on the Republican and Democratic sides – will share in the blame. And so too should the U.S. mainstream media.

http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/47754.htm


..... and another reasoned view of the problem:

What the Media isn’t Telling You About North Korea’s Missile Tests - By Mike Whitney

Last Monday, the DPRK fired a Hwasong-12 intermediate-range ballistic missile over Japan’s Hokkaido Island. The missile landed in the waters beyond the island harming neither people nor property.

The media immediately condemned the test as a “bold and provocative act” that showed the North’s defiance of UN resolutions and “contempt for its neighbours.” President Trump sharply criticized the missile test saying:
“Threatening and destabilizing actions only increase the North Korean regime’s isolation in the region and among all nations of the world. All options are on the table.”

What the media failed to mention was that, for the last three weeks, Japan, South Korea and the US have been engaged in large-scale joint-military drills on Hokkaido Island and in South Korea. These needlessly provocative war games are designed to simulate an invasion of North Korea and a “decapitation” operation to remove (Re: Kill) the regime. North Korea’s supreme leader, Kim Jong-un has asked the US repeatedly to end these military exercises, but the US has stubbornly refused. The US reserves the right to threaten anyone, anytime and anywhere even right on their doorstep. It’s part of what makes the US exceptional. Check out this excerpt from an article at Fox News:

“More than 3,500 American and Japanese troops kicked off a weeks-long joint military exercise Thursday against the backdrop of an increasingly belligerent North Korean regime. The exercise, known as Northern Viper 17, will take place on Hokkaido — Japan’s northern-most main island — and will last until Aug. 28…."

“We are improving our readiness not only in the air, but as a logistical support team,” Col. R. Scott Jobe, the 35th Fighter Wing commander, said in a statement. “We are in a prime location for contingency purposes and this exercise will only build upon our readiness in the case a real-world scenario occurs.” (US, Japanese troops begin joint military exercise amid North Korea threat”, Fox News)

Monday’s missile test (which flew over Hokkaido Island) was conducted just hours after the war games ended. The message was clear: The North is not going to be publicly humiliated and slapped around without responding. Rather than show weakness, the North demonstrated that it was prepared to defend itself against foreign aggression. In other words, the test was NOT a “bold and provocative act” (as the media stated) but a modest and well thought-out response by a country that has experienced 64 years of relentless hectoring, sanctions, demonization and sabre rattling by Washington. The North responded because the Washington’s incitements required a response. End of story.

http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/47754.htm


...... and the only World leader with a realist appraisal and a pragmatic approach to the problem:

Putin warns ‘hysteria’ over North Korea threatens ‘global catastrophe’ - By Reuters

• Putin thinks that sanctions could lead to large-scale human suffering
• Putin, speaking after a BRICs summit in China, also warned against further ramping up military hysteria around North Korea

Russian President Vladimir Putin said on Tuesday that imposing tougher sanctions on North Korea over its nuclear missile program would be counter-productive and said threats of military action could trigger "a global catastrophe."

"Russia condemns North Korea's exercises, we consider that they are a provocation ... (But) ramping up military hysteria will lead to nothing good. It could lead to a global catastrophe," he told reporters.

http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/47746.htm


.... and the historical aspect:

Why Can’t Wheeler-Dealer Trump Cut a Deal with North Korea? - By Mike Whitney

The United States and South Korea are currently engaged in large-scale, joint-military war games that simulate an invasion of the North, the destruction of the DPRK’s nuclear weapons sites, and a “decapitation operation” to take out the supreme leader, Kim Jong-un. The objective of the operation is to intensify tensions between North and South thereby justifying the continued US occupation of the peninsula and the permanent division of the country.

Imagine if North Korea decided to conduct massive “live fire” military drills, accompanied by a Chinese naval flotilla, just three miles off the coast of California. And, let’s say, they decided to send formations of strategic high-altitude aircraft loaded with nuclear bombs to fly along the Canada and Mexico borders while tens of thousands of combat troops accompanied by hundreds of tanks and armoured vehicles rehearsed a “shock and awe” type blitz onto US territory where they would immediately crush the defending army, level cities and critical civilian infrastructure, and topple the regime in Washington.

Do you think the Trump administration would dismiss the North’s provocative war games as merely “defensive manoeuvres” or would they see them as a clear and present danger to US national security warranting a prompt and muscular response from the military?

It’s a no brainer, isn’t it? If North Korea treated the US like the US treats North Korea, then Washington would turn everything north of the 38th Parallel into a smouldering wastelands. That much is certain.

http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/47692.htm



...... or of course, you could listen to or watch the approved version as presented by Nicki Hailey .... the US Ambassador to the United Nations?
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Re: Nth Korea .. there are two sides to every story!

Postby boomerang » Wed Sep 06, 2017 4:24 pm

Behind north korea is china as she knows the us and her allies have no options apart from rhetoric....why you ask?....becase the us and her allies are giving china a hard rime over her man made islands....

Why the us has limited options?...because for sure sth korea would bear the grunt of an attack with the possibility of japan, both competitors to china...

If these 2 countries fall the west would for sure experience hard times...dark days would await us....you think the us can ever take a chance?

China will win reardless of what happens....they already set up to the us annoyance a competitor to the imf....
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Re: Nth Korea .. there are two sides to every story!

Postby Robin Hood » Wed Sep 06, 2017 7:24 pm

I always believed it was the North Koreans that started the conflict in Korea in 1950. It seems that history does not support that concept, although who actually fired the first shot is unclear. It actually started in 1945 and went on until 1949 when the North Korean’s fought back against the USA/Rhee regime in South Korea. :o

When Rhee looked as if he was losing against Kim-Il-Sung, the USA joined in and mercilessly carpet bombed North Korea, killing over 3 million and destroying over 70% of the country and infrastructure!

The USA would have prevailed over North Korea were it not for China’s intervention under Mao Tse Tung. Maybe history will repeat itself …………. :roll: :?:

Understanding North Korea - Taking a History and Testing Hypotheses.

By Dr. Robert Rennebohm - August 21, 2017

When there is conflict between two parties, it is best if each party tries to understand and think from the other’s point of view, as opposed to thinking only from their own point of view and perpetuating misconceptions regarding the other’s view.
When a physician is confronted with a problem, the first step is to take a complete and accurate history; the second step is to test hypotheses generated by that history and the physician’s background knowledge and experience.

Let’s start by taking a history of what has occurred in Korea over the past century or more:

http://www.globalresearch.ca/understanding-north-korea-2/5605020
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Re: Nth Korea .. there are two sides to every story!

Postby repulsewarrior » Thu Sep 07, 2017 12:32 am

...it is like there is a book somewhere, the same predictable reactions to the same predictable acts.

Indeed Kim Jong-un, has challenged the USA to demilitarise, to come to the table to negociate nuclear disarmament.

Why not a meeting of the countries concerned, including Iran, Israel, and who ever else aspire to having the bomb, why not the full dislosure to end this blight?

...if there is anything this man can offer, it is peace, but it is from those that are truly strong that comes Grace; two sides to the story.
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Re: Nth Korea .. there are two sides to every story!

Postby Robin Hood » Thu Sep 07, 2017 6:36 pm

repulsewarrior wrote:...it is like there is a book somewhere, the same predictable reactions to the same predictable acts.

Indeed Kim Jong-un, has challenged the USA to demilitarise, to come to the table to negociate nuclear disarmament.

Why not a meeting of the countries concerned, including Iran, Israel, and who ever else aspire to having the bomb, why not the full disclosure to end this blight?

...if there is anything this man can offer, it is peace, but it is from those that are truly strong that comes Grace; two sides to the story.


As the good doctor says ....... he looked at information he had to assume was reasonably accurate ..... and formed an hypothesis! I don't necessarily agree with his hypothesis or the alternate view, but I did not know any of the history of the Korean Peninsular until I read this article and checking it out since he is not far off the historical mark. :wink:

As a wild guess ..... I think we could see China/Russia/Nth. Korea/Sth. Korea, sit around a table and resolve this dispute without military conflict. I don't think any of those involved want a military solution but I think Trumps threats are the antithesis of diplomacy. Will that suit the USA ? Somehow I don't think so, as I think both Koreas will demand a reunification and demilitarisation of the peninsular and if you include Japan in the talks, they will want the same in Japan ...... and this will definitely not please the US at all. Mind you they could always relocate their 70,000+ troops and weapons to Paphitis in Australia! :lol: :lol:

As for nuclear disclosure? Iran does not have a nuclear weapons capacity and has not had any such intent since they got rid of the Shah. It has always been declared haram .... against the teachings of their Prophet. I understand that Israel has about the fourth largest nuclear/chemical/biological arsenal in the World ...... but this is always ignored in the West in spite of the fact they have been threatening the Iranians with a pre-emptive strike for years ..... in self-defence of course. :roll:

The US and its allies seem to apply double standards when it comes to 'Gods chosen people' ! :roll: :wink:
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Re: Nth Korea .. there are two sides to every story!

Postby Cp279 » Fri Sep 08, 2017 4:15 pm

Interestingly Kim Jong-un was educated in Switzerland.
http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-news ... -uns-98511


And it looks mum and dad never turned up for parents' meetings. :lol:
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Re: Nth Korea .. there are two sides to every story!

Postby Robin Hood » Fri Sep 08, 2017 6:45 pm

This, as the title implies, is just what it says ..... it is pure propaganda but even so is interesting because it is how the North Koreans may see our society and explain why we see theirs as being so different?

PROPAGANDA.

On a trip to visit family in Seoul in April, I was approached by a man and a woman who claimed to be North Korean defectors. They presented me with a DVD that recently came into their possession and asked me to translate it. They also asked me to post the completed film on the Internet so that it could reach a worldwide audience. I believed what I was told and an agreement was made to protect their identities (and mine).

Despite my concerns about what I was viewing when I returned home, I proceeded to translate and post the film on You Tube because of the film's extraordinary content. I have now made public my belief that this film was never intended for a domestic audience in the DPRK. Instead, I believe that these people, who presented themselves as 'defectors' specifically targeted me because of my reputation as a translator and interpreter.

Furthermore, I now believe these people work for the DPRK. The fact that I have continued to translate and post the film in spite of this belief does not make me complicit in their intention to spread their ideology. I chose to keep posting this film because - regardless of who made it - I believe people should see it because of the issues it raises and I stand by my right to post it for people to share and discuss freely with each other.

According to Sabine the above is the formal statement she gave to Federal Police on 16 June 2012.

Sabine: I have translated this film, laid in the English voice over and subtitles, and on legal advice have blurred the identity of the presenter and/or blacked out certain elements.

https://topdocumentaryfilms.com/propaganda/
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Re: Nth Korea .. there are two sides to every story!

Postby repulsewarrior » Fri Sep 08, 2017 10:36 pm

...thanks for the link, interesting site, interesting program.

..."them", after all these years of trying to be as clear as possible, boils down to a kind of class warfare. Who can trust any Leader? They don't trust each other, that in itself says alot. Questioning Authority is all we (read: not "them") have. And then, what does it matter, what is natural evolves, the rest do not survive.

...Kim is no better, Putin, and Erdogan are two others that do not stumble along in securing what they want; i don't doubt that in North Korea people starve.

...and that while Kim can demonstrate that Democracy is under seige around the Occidental world; North Korea has no Democracy either.
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Re: Nth Korea .. there are two sides to every story!

Postby Robin Hood » Sun Sep 10, 2017 6:08 pm

RW:
..........I don't doubt that in North Korea people starve.


I think you would be wrong on that because you are looking at it through western eyes. The NK's ‘Propaganda’ video made a good point in saying that we in western society are coerced into buying things we don’t need and I think that was a very true statement.

I have never been to North Korea, I doubt whether any one on this forum has, but from what I can see and read they are very much a rural nation and live in interactive communities outside the cities and towns ....... just like we did a hundred years or more ago. Each will produce what he produces or provides services commensurate with his skills and knowledge and this will apply across a relatively small number in a collective of communities. Some people will obviously have paid jobs as well.

Once a week they will have a market day where they buy and sell local produce. This provides their staple diet ...... nothing like the overindulged society we live in! They make from basic ingredients what we pay others to make. :o

I was in our local supermarket the other day, a fairly large one but not one of the chains and after watching the video looked at what was on offer. I would guess 95%+ of the food stuff we could easily do without. We buy village bread because we like it but ..... there were 26 different types of bread, the same number of rolls, Pitta breads, sliced and frozen breads and literally dozens of cakes and savouries, and it was the same all around the store, you were spoilt for choice and that was without counting all the dozens and dozens of cooked and frozen foods/meals. I doubt you would even find a supermarket in most NK communities let alone a large one.

We waste a lot of food in the West apparently, again I doubt that applies to NK. My wife comes from a village/small town location in Poland and she was saying this is what she remembers as a child and that was the way it was outside the larger towns and cities. Her family had chickens, ducks and they grew vegetables but they swapped a chicken for fish from the local fishermen and got milk straight from a neighbours cow in exchange for eggs. What the NK's have on the shelves in stores is the raw ingredients such a flour, rice, salt, sugar, vegetables etc. and whatever meat was available on the day ........... so I think the concept that they are starving in this day and age is not accurate but, do they have what we have ..... somehow I don’t think so. But I would bet that most women actually cook a proper meal, no matter how simple, rather than get a TV dinner out of the freezer, defrost it in the microwave a shove it in the oven? I should think only the few have refrigerators and/or freezers! :wink:

They did have famines after the Korean war but mainly because the US reduced their country to rubble, killed millions and destroyed all the dams they used to irrigate the land, as well as inundating the land itself. Then the US imposed sanctions on just about everything including food stuffs and medicine. :(

Today, in spite of all the sanctions, NK has a health service available free to all, that is the envy of South East Asia including South Korea and even places like Hong Kong .... where it is available but you need to be fairly well off to afford it. They apparently have no homeless people as the State provides. They also have an excellent education system and send those eligible for university places abroad, all expenses paid to get their degrees. Maybe these are the same graduates that have designed and built their nuclear deterrents? :shock:

This is just my view but it seems a rational approach rather than just accepting what we are told and not thinking it through for ourselves. I am sure that if things in NK were as bad as we are led to believe, the US would have managed a regime change after the war! So, I tend to take these extreme stories with a pinch of salt. A bit like Syria really ...... in spite of the stories we have been fed when it comes down to it, the evil dictator gets voted back into power when they have an election. :wink:
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Re: Nth Korea .. there are two sides to every story!

Postby yialousa1971 » Sun Sep 10, 2017 7:43 pm

Mike Robinson and Patrick Henningsen with today's UK Column News, including a conversation with investigative journalist Eva Bartlett, recently returned from North Korea

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