Cyprus-Forum.com

[Tony-4497]

I fully agree with the proposed solution, provided we are talking about an 82:18 split or thereabouts, on the basis of the pre-1974 population (settlers cannot count) and on the lawful ownership split of the land, and provided the coastline will be split on the same ratio.

The ideal solution would of course be a full re-unification into a single state, where everyone is allowed to go back to their homes and have the 1-person 1-vote principle, guaranteed by EU law and army. However, as the 18% TC minority is (ironically) not prepared to "become" a minority under any circumstances, the only solution that can realistically be accepted by both sides is the one proposed above.

TCs cannot have their cake and eat it. Either they want re-unification or they do not. As Piratis explained above, an Annan-plan-type solution (and in my view any BBF solution involving political equality) gives the best of both worlds to the TCs and the worst of both worlds to the GCs, hence it will NEVER be accepted at a referendum.

A clean partition with fair land sharing (i.e. 82:18 ) is infinitely better for GC than a BBF and I believe that over 90% of GCs would vote for it at a referendum. Those very few GCs who would insist on returning to their properties in the TC state should be able to do so and so should the TC who would want to live in the GC state. Given the full sovereignty of the two states and high concentration of GC and TC respectively within them, it should not be a problem to have a small minority from the other community. The land % split should be adjusted to reflect the number of returnees - although I think the net effect will probably be around 82:18.

I believe that the Republic of Cyprus should become more pro-active and immediately state to the world that it is prepared to accept EITHER of the 2 solutions mentioned above (i.e. full, true re-unification in a single state or clean 82:18 partition). This would remove all pressure from the various Turkish supporters. It should also state that unless Turkey accepts one of the two solutions in the near future, its EU accession will be frozen because of the illegal military occupation of 37% of an EU member state.

[sadik]

My solution would be Cyprus divided into 80% Greek side and 20% Turkish side. I know a lot of people will not like this idea, but let me just explain my arguments.

Hi Simon,

For this plan to work, the EU membership of both states is essential, for both strategical and economic reasons. With the EU membership of both sides we can achieve demilitarization and security and cooperation between the sides.

But I don't know how the EU would see this. With the referandum requirement for new members imposed in some EU countries, I don't know if the North can become a member in a reasonable time frame. Also, how would the EU view the membership of yet another small country which would create more complexity in the EU voting procedures, now that the EU constitution is shelved?

Also, can someone explain us why this 20/80 plan has never been raised officially by any of the sides?

[Simon]

It seems that most people therefore could agree to this solution in principle. Obviously the smaller details must be resolved, but it is certainly workable and will take us forward from this constant bickering that we keep prescribing to today.

Sadik I don't see any reason why the TRNC couldn't then join the EU, within a time scale that the EU stipulates. Obviously, voting procedures would have to be sorted out just as it is when any other EU state joins. Obviously, therefore, this solution must receive EU backing. It will also allow for direct trade with the northern part and it could receive EU aid etc without GC interference. The Northern part would no doubt become more prosperous and benefit, as would the south also, with many GCs returning to their homes and the island being divided more fairly.

Tony, I agree with you also. I believe both sides would agree to this.

However, don't misunderstand me, I want Cyprus reunified, but this is a clear, logical step in moving towards reunification. Go back to my A, B, C analogy. I believe this is a logical step because it will break down many of the barriers, with the TRNC no longer seen as illegal by GCs, with the property disputes resolved, with the two states being able to trade and act normally. With people then being able to pass freely between the border, once the North joins the EU, I then believe the two sides could talk about reunification. But only if both sides want it. This in my eyes must be the foundation and could see lasting peace in Cyprus.

Finally, if people do actually think this solution is the best one (as BBF arguments are not getting us nor our leaders anywhere) then why don't we, the people, put more pressure on our leaders to find a solution based on this. We should lobby and put pressure on our leaders because I question whether they are really doing enough.

[cypezokyli]

sadik wrote:

Also, can someone explain us why this 20/80 plan has never been raised officially by any of the sides?

bc you would most probably not agree on such a low percentege,
and we still try to convince ourselves and the whole world the we want to reunite. dont give up though. just wait some few years, and the numbers of our side will be growing. give us some more time and and at the rate we are going we will agree with you that we cant live together. just wait a while

who would have thought..isnt ironic ? !!!

[Simon]

cypezokyli do not lose heart. If you look at my title, it says lets just accept partition - FOR NOW. Have you not heard of the phrase we sometimes need to take two steps back to take one step forward. This is a stalemate. The solution above is one that could end the hostilities and move us forward.

We are currently stuck in the same arguments, going round and round in circles. This is my opinion would end all that. Like I said before, it would create the stability that we need to ever consider reunification.

By the way, the TCs have absolutely no reason not to accept 18-20%. This represents their population size and is even generous to them according to land ownership figures. In my eyes, this must be the step forward. Just think how wonderful it would be if we could wake up tomorrow with thousands of GCs going back to their homes. Not all can, I know, but would all be able to under any solution. I doubt it.

With many GCs returning to their homes and others being compensated (which some would probably prefer) and with TCs having their own recognisable state, that could trade, receive aid and join the EU - THIS WOULD CREATE STABILITY AND WOULD REDUCE TENSION. NEITHER SIDE WOULD BE SEEN AS BACKING DOWN, AND WITH THIS NEW FOUND PEACE, REUNIFICATION CAN HAPPEN. But again I stress, only reunification if both independent states wanted it, if they don't, then we don't unite. This is the way it has to be for peace, prosperity and to end all current disputes.

[cypezokyli]

cypezokyli do not lose heart

dont worry, simon, i am not.
i will not support this proposal as much as i can

Have you not heard of the phrase we sometimes need to take two steps back to take one step forward.

yeap. if i am not mistaken it was taken by one of the biggest dictators in history - Lenin
we could even elaborate on the targets he actually had if u want, and what his "forward" actually was

The solution above is one that could end the hostilities and move us forward

.
hostilities have a specific reason to appear or not. if you want me to explain you these reasons, i am more than willing to do that.
and for specific reasons they didnot appear since 2003 - since the border are open. perhaps its because -obviously , some parts- of the population has grown up. there are other reasons..its not that difficult to find them out.

"forward" is a rather akward expression, where everyone defines it every way they want. if thats forward for you... i can only send you this song

http://www.kithara.vu/ss.php?id=MTAzNjc3NzU5
it represents my thoughts on your "forward" fully.
i take it u can read greek.

in the mean time, i ll be a traitor , and support rude gals proposals , as they are closer to my "forward".
honestly, isnt it ironic that i get these proposals from a tc while gcs demand, what they accused tcs of demanding? isnt it really ironic?
if you excuse me... i have to go out, i have this feeling that i need to scream

[Simon]

cypezokyli firstly, I understand that Rude Gal actually agreed with my proposal! Look back at what is said.

yeap. if i am not mistaken it was taken by one of the biggest dictators in history - Lenin
we could even elaborate on the targets he actually had if u want, and what his "forward" actually was

That is honestly a ridiculous thing to say. My step forward is for Cyprus to re-unite, that always was the final aim if you read my proposal properly. But if you want to carry on acting stupid that is up to you.

hostilities have a specific reason to appear or not

I think we all know what a large part of the hostilities are. This proposal is to resolve them. Your not really making sense. Yes the border is open, but the hostilities remain because the disputes remain. This proposal is to end the disputes, before we can consider reunification.

You refuse to accept it that is fine, but I think you would get out-voted in any referendum. What is your alternative anyway? I have heard loads about BBF etc, and the TCs and GCs (including the leaders) cannot agree on this. So this solution would be a progressive step. You need to realise, it is not me proposing partition, IT ALREADY EXISTS. I'm just asking people to make the partition more proportionate and fair, so GCs can return to their homes, and the TCs in the north do not continue to be isolated.

[cypezokyli]

re simona,are you planning of driving us crazy tonight?

simon wrote:

That is honestly a ridiculous thing to say. My step forward is for Cyprus to re-unite, that always was the final aim if you read my proposal properly.

and indeed simon also wrote:

Zhto, I want enosis and have said so from day one.

http://www.cyprus-forum.com/viewtopic.php?p=68738#68738

could you please elaborate on your targets a bit?
re-unification and enosis, according to my understanding have a chaos between them.

Yes the border is open, but the hostilities remain because the disputes remain

sometimes, words have different meanings. sometimes is the language barrier. it could be that we understand different things from the same word. who knows ?
according to my poor dictionary: hostilities - εχθροπραξίες.
could you name the hostilities that have taken place since 2003?
honestly, bc when i am at home i cross the border regularly. if hostilities have taken place that you know of, you could perhaps inform me. bc up to now i feel quite safe going to the north.

[Simon]

For the first part look at the EOKA thread. It explains it clearly for you.

Second part, it is peaceful at the moment because there is partition. Do you think that would last if they just moved all GCs back to the north again? Come on, talk sense. It needs to happen slowly, not straight away. The hostility has reduced I agree, because of partition. But it will not last without proportionality, which is what I'm proposing.

[cypezokyli]

i hope you understand that there is a difference between

Second part, it is peaceful at the moment because there is partition

Yes the border is open, but the hostilities remain because the disputes remain

they either remain, or it is peaceful at the moment. one of the two. not both at the same time

Second part, it is peaceful at the moment because there is partition. Do you think that would last if they just moved all GCs back to the north again? Come on, talk sense. It needs to happen slowly, not straight away. The hostility has reduced I agree, because of partition. But it will not last without proportionality, which is what I'm proposing.

the beggining of the hostilities in cyprus, started in 1963 (to be more exact during eoka). could you tell me what caused them?