Cyprus-Forum.com

[bg_turk]

I wonder which one is more of joke.. this statement or the proposal of this thread..

You boys can keep living in a fantasy world if you want to.. both of the above are in the spirit of Turkish statements that "the problem was solved in 74".. i.e. Turkey is big and hard and will keep what she has conquered..

What you fail to realise is that for the first time after 30 years it is now Turkey that NEEDS a solution. This solution will need to be fair and acceptable to GCs - otherwise it will be rejected as per the Annan plan.

A fair solution is a partition based on proportionality (i.e. 80/20) or a true unification in a unitary state.

You choose which one you want - you either live together with GCs or live separately by taking only your fair share of the land which is 20% max (which by the way should be also done for the Kurds in Turkey- if TC deserve a state so do the Kurds).

Any other solution would simply not be worth it for GCs - we would much rather keep the status quo and keep trying to take all of our land back in any way possible - AND keep you and Turkey outside the EU in the meantime.

What you have stated above is the usual greek cypriot rhetoric, which is irrelevant to my proposal, because it is a unilateral decision which does not require concesnsus.

If the TRNC were to take a decision of returning the properties tomorrow, something that regugees have been looking forward to for 30 years now, how would you stop the wave of GCs rushing to the courts in the North?

[bg_turk]

You choose which one you want - you either live together with GCs or live separately by taking only your fair share of the land which is 20% max (which by the way should be also done for the Kurds in Turkey- if TC deserve a state so do the Kurds).

I completely agree with this.

I never doubt that you would.
To see Turkey split into parts is the greeks and greek cypriots most cherished dream.

[Sotos]

sotos are you implying that those asking partition (both gcs and tcs) or enosis (only gcs), or both, are nationalists?

The TCs that ask for partition and the GCs that ask for enosis are nationalists. I am not exactly sure how GCs that ask for partition and TCs that ask for enosis could be called. I think those are people who just accept what happens and not nationalists.

[Lala_Mustafa_Pasha]

Tony
What you fail to realise is that for the first time after 30 years it is now Turkey that NEEDS a solution. This solution will need to be fair and acceptable to GCs - otherwise it will be rejected as per the Annan plan.

You choose which one you want - you either live together with GCs or live separately by taking only your fair share of the land which is 20% max (which by the way should be also done for the Kurds in Turkey- if TC deserve a state so do the Kurds).

This is what I love, when people just be honest and speak their mind.

1st, Turkey's laughing at you guys, it doesnt need a solution, incase you forgot the tough part is over, 30 years finished, ambargo's keep being lifted, the world media is symathetic to Turks cos we voted YES in the Annan plan knowing you would vote NO

Its got its solution TRNC, wether you like it or not, you sealed its fate that it will exist, give yourselves a pat on the back, bravo.

All thats happening now is words, Turkey sounds really convincing doesnt it, you don't get it, in the media Turkey is the good guy, Greek Cyprus is the bad guy lol what Irony how things change. Even Greece has had enough of you.

While you carry on foaming at the mouth, nations like most recently Brazil lifted Ambargo's, compared with 30 years ago its turning into somthing of a dream up here in Turkish Cyprus, thanks for not being able to agree


Oh and about the Kurds hehe, I guess you guys think Greece is a homogenous nation Oh and since you feel so close to Kurds, well I feel really close to the Turks of Gabir-Trakya, Western Thrace in Greece, there population is somewhat Booming oh and lets not forget our 1 million Albanian brothers who feel their land is occupied by Greece. Oh and did I forget to mention the Macedonians and their grievences against Greece.

What was that Greek policy, um enemy of my enemy is my friend

As I said be carefull what you wish for, Greece has wisened up, it knows it must be kind towards Turkey otherwise Turkey will ignite its ethnic non-Greek populations

[Simon]

1st, Turkey's laughing at you guys, it doesnt need a solution, incase you forgot the tough part is over, 30 years finished, ambargo's keep being lifted, the world media is symathetic to Turks cos we voted YES in the Annan plan knowing you would vote NO

Doesn't need a solution??? I think you should listen to the EU a bit more

Its got its solution TRNC, wether you like it or not, you sealed its fate that it will exist, give yourselves a pat on the back, bravo.

What? You mean the same state that NONE of the world's big players recognise or trade with? Yeah, some solution.

Oh and about the Kurds hehe, I guess you guys think Greece is a homogenous nation Oh and since you feel so close to Kurds, well I feel really close to the Turks of Gabir-Trakya, Western Thrace in Greece, there population is somewhat Booming oh and lets not forget our 1 million Albanian brothers who feel their land is occupied by Greece. Oh and did I forget to mention the Macedonians and their grievences against Greece.

Its a bit different from the Kurdish issue. Again, I refer you to official stats. Official stats say that Greece is 98% Greek. Turkey has a massive Kurdish community of 20%. Don't you think they deserve power sharing? Oh and the Turks in Thrace you refer to are actually considered Greek Muslims....

[Lala_Mustafa_Pasha]

Doesn't need a solution??? I think you should listen to the EU a bit more

U.S.A and UK run the EU, whatever they say goes, France, Germany etc talk alot and thats about it, if U.s.a/Uk want us in, all we have to do is talk nicely lol.

Its a bit different from the Kurdish issue. Again, I refer you to official stats. Official stats say that Greece is 98% Greek. Turkey has a massive Kurdish community of 20%. Don't you think they deserve power sharing? Oh and the Turks in Thrace you refer to are actually considered Greek Muslims....

Your livinng in a dream world, in Turkey its 100% Turk officially as everyone is a Turkish citizen.

In Greece my friend your wildly mistaken, you go and find out how many Albanians, Kosovans, Macedonians, Turks and Gypsies live in Greece, you'd get quite a shock

Why do you think Greece stopped its big talk against Turkey lol, Yugoslavia collapsed and now Greece is surrounded by Turkish allies lol it has to be on very good terms.

Wake up man, your living in a dream world, Turkey-Greece relations are normalising, Greek Cyprus is seen as a pain by Greek government today, Turkey has done a great media boosting image project which has been succesfull.

One day your gonna have to accept Trnc lol, its on a path towards recognition.....

[Simon]

U.S.A and UK run the EU, whatever they say goes, France, Germany etc talk alot and thats about it, if U.s.a/Uk want us in, all we have to do is talk nicely lol.

This is total crap. The USA may run a lot of things, including the UN and NATO, but they do not run the EU. For example, if they did, why wasn't the whole EU involved in the Iraq war. Or if the UK runs the EU, why did they have to give more money over in the rebate row? It is Britain, France and Germany that are the main players in the EU. And they are all unanimous that Turkey need a solution.

Your livinng in a dream world, in Turkey its 100% Turk officially as everyone is a Turkish citizen.

In Greece my friend your wildly mistaken, you go and find out how many Albanians, Kosovans, Macedonians, Turks and Gypsies live in Greece, you'd get quite a shock

I think its you that lives in a dream world. I have the most updated World of Atlas in front of me. It says, ethnicity Turkey: Turkish 80%, Kurdish 20%. Greece: Greek 98%, Others 2%.

Why do you think Greece stopped its big talk against Turkey lol, Yugoslavia collapsed and now Greece is surrounded by Turkish allies lol it has to be on very good terms.

What, Albania, Macedonia? They are really scary

Wake up man, your living in a dream world, Turkey-Greece relations are normalising, Greek Cyprus is seen as a pain by Greek government today, Turkey has done a great media boosting image project which has been succesfull.

Normalising? It is only recently that Turkey has threatened war against Greece, for using their waters and airspace legally!!! Further, Turkey complained to the USA about Greece getting involved in the Eurofighter project, so Greece had to withdraw, does this sound normal to you?

One day your gonna have to accept Trnc lol, its on a path towards recognition.....

I have said before, I would accept a TRNC, but based on proportionality. Your LEGAL population is 18%, so this is how much land you should keep, and wanting more is pure greed, which means you will end with nothing.

[Tony-4497]

If the TRNC were to take a decision of returning the properties tomorrow, something that regugees have been looking forward to for 30 years now, how would you stop the wave of GCs rushing to the courts in the North?

If the Turkish occupation forces (which exert control in the occupied territory of the RoC, as per the ECHR) allowed the return of all GCs to their homes, it would mean significant progress in resolving the problem.

As I have explained, the above is not possible, as in such a case they would have to kick out all the settlers and the foreigners that think they have "bought" those homes. And if you think GCs will accept compensation instead (i.e. land in the south or cash) then you are dreaming. They will not, and that's one of the main reasons they rejected the Annan plan. Also, preventing them from returning and proposing cash instead contradicts basic human rights and ECHR rulings, so GCs will still be able to go to ECHR in such a case and demand full property return.

Also, those that do return, will be citizens of the RoC and will ignore any "laws" of the "TRNC", as these do not exist. Accordingly, the situation in the occupied areas will become unstable, a large portion of the population will be obeying the true legal authority of the land..interesting..

And in any case, the only reason Turkey needs a solution is its EU accession process and nothing else.. In the absence of a solution, EU member RoC will no doubt block this accession due to the illegal occupation of 37% of its territory by Turkish forces, even if some GC return..

Why else do you think Turkey and its western daddys are trying so hard to bring back the Annan plan?

[bg_turk]

If the Turkish occupation forces (which exert control in the occupied territory of the RoC, as per the ECHR) allowed the return of all GCs to their homes, it would mean significant progress in resolving the problem.

I agree. It will be a significant step towards recognition of the TRNC.

As I have explained, the above is not possible, as in such a case they would have to kick out all the settlers and the foreigners that think they have "bought" those homes. And if you think GCs will accept compensation instead (i.e. land in the south or cash) then you are dreaming. They will not, and that's one of the main reasons they rejected the Annan plan. Also, preventing them from returning and proposing cash instead contradicts basic human rights and ECHR rulings, so GCs will still be able to go to ECHR in such a case and demand full property return.

Compensation will be offered only if GCs accept such a friendly settlement where they give up all their rights over proprty for money. Compensation cannot be offered against the will of the GC citizens. I never mentioned compensation in this proposal, return of the land should be the top priority. Of course that will not be possible in quite a few cases, and in these isntance GCs must be given an equivalent plot of land. If they are not satisfied they should be able to appeal to the ECHRs.

Also, those that do return, will be citizens of the RoC and will ignore any "laws" of the "TRNC", as these do not exist. Accordingly, the situation in the occupied areas will become unstable, a large portion of the population will be obeying the true legal authority of the land..interesting..

No person that does not recognize the soveregnity of the TRNC over the North of Cyprus will be allowed to return. Obtaining TRNC citizenship and a minimum stay of 15 days in the TRNC will be a prerequisite for all refugees that will be given their land back. The TRNC cannot guarantee the return of people who are willing to engage in conspiracy to undermine its soveregnity, and I hope you realize that in those cases the TRNC cannot be held responsible for the situation that will arize.

And in any case, the only reason Turkey needs a solution is its EU accession process and nothing else.. In the absence of a solution, EU member RoC will no doubt block this accession due to the illegal occupation of 37% of its territory by Turkish forces, even if some GC return..

Why else do you think Turkey and its western daddys are trying so hard to bring back the Annan plan?

Turkish accession is irrelevant to me. My main concern is the sustainability of the TRNC in the long run. It is the TRNC obligation to abide by the UN charter for human rights, if it fails to do that, it will simply remain a pariah state.

[Lala_Mustafa_Pasha]

This is total crap. The USA may run a lot of things, including the UN and NATO, but they do not run the EU.

You carry on believing what you want, just look at the "new" Germany sucking up to the U.S now, the Turkish population of Germany is going through the roof as we get more educated and economically stronger and strengthen the lobbies Germany will have to "appease" and treat Turks very kindly and with respect

Just look at France now, its suffering, its not long before it stops being stubborn.

TRNC is walking towards recognation, I'll see it in my lifetime

You think EU means anything, in 10 years Europe is going to want us in Europe, there are other plans your just not aware of, plans which we see as much more important