Cyprus-Forum.com

[maewing]

The anticipated and actual entry of Cyprus to EU has certainly been a monetary windfal gain to many--especially property developers. I would also imagine that many would attribute its rapid development in recent years to this as well.

However, since the EU is significantly influenced by France and Germany (two countries with an almost contempt of the religious traditions of southern Europe), do you think membership will come at a cost of increased Western (and therefore atheist) values?

Recall that Greece was asked to remove all references to God from its constitution upon joining...

[pumpernickle]

Britain and France display a political system that separates church from state. That means that the church is largely disempowered from the political system and deprived of significant power and influence.

A good thing I'd say, seeing as the Church in al denominations is a business, and is as bent as f***.

So to make the conclusion that the EU (because france and UK are members) will lead to more sin and less religion amongst people is quite some leap!

I'm not so sure that cypriots are that well adept at 'logic'. Sorry, no offence, but i've heard some seriously ridiculous things out here, since I arrived. Some people still think the world is flat, and that playstations are the work of satan because they make flashy images and seem to interest kids more than the bible.

One day I'll wake up, and I'll be laying flat on my back on a stone alter, with old women from platres pouring cold holy water on my face, babbling exorcisms and stabbing my heart with kebab skewers because I wear Nike trainers and fart in public.

[Michael]

Yes thank you for the mature contribution. Maybe if you stopped visiting your Turkish friends in the occupied areas then you might find out the world was not flat and the sun didn’t shine out of an Englishman’s arse.

[pumpernickle]

kiss and be blinded, Michael. Kiss, and be blinded.

[Piratis]

The state and religion should be separated. Firstly because religion is something personal, and secondly because involving one (or some) religion with the state would be unfair for the citizens of a different or no religion.

pumpernickle, how about the logic of still having a King/Queen in Britain? Isn't it time for the "Royalty" to be kicked out of the state affairs as well and all references in the UKs constitution about "her majesty" etc to be removed just like they ask from Greece to remove references to God?

Or maybe the tradition of Greece is OK to change while the tradition of UK can not?
If you ask from others to be progressive you can't be that much conservative yourself, right?

[pumpernickle]

er, Piratis, have I ever mentioned my beliefs on the UK royal family? Have I ever disclosed whether or not I am a Republican or a Royalist?

Tons of British people fall in to one camp or the other, or are dont knows. It is possible to have one set of views and also fall into either camp.

Sure, slag off the royal family for all I care. Like it bothers me. I have mentioned in my threads my disdain for nationalism of all hues. So it probably can be assumed from this, that I have rather apathetic or negatives views towards the UK monarchy.

my views are a little more complex than that, but if no-one asks me, then I generally don't tell.

[Michael]

Britain and France display a political system that separates church from state. That means that the church is largely disempowered from the political system and deprived of significant power and influence.

A good thing I'd say, seeing as the Church in al denominations is a business, and is as bent as f***.

So to make the conclusion that the EU (because france and UK are members) will lead to more sin and less religion amongst people is quite some leap!

I'm not so sure that cypriots are that well adept at 'logic'. Sorry, no offence, but i've heard some seriously ridiculous things out here, since I arrived. Some people still think the world is flat, and that playstations are the work of satan because they make flashy images and seem to interest kids more than the bible.

One day I'll wake up, and I'll be laying flat on my back on a stone alter, with old women from platres pouring cold holy water on my face, babbling exorcisms and stabbing my heart with kebab skewers because I wear Nike trainers and fart in public.

You can’t even get this simple fact right. The United Kingdom does not have a separation of state and Church. The Queen, the sovereign majesty of the so called United Kingdom and NI, is also the Supreme Head of the Church of England. They still sit in the House of Lords. Do and try and pay attention. I think you should try and come to grips with your own facts before moving out to the rest of the world. .

[cypezokyli]

i am practically everything that the chusrch does, which has nothing to do with what they are supposed to do. that is stay in their churches and talk about god to those that want to hear.
any other involvement in makng laws, education, society, the cyppro is absolutely unaccteble.
what the EU can do, is to force -especially HR laws- that the priests are against for any possible reason.
but , it cannot impose its ethics nor can it prevent the channels running after any bishop who opens his mouth to scare the people

@michael. u have no clue about tcs....honestly. no clue

[pumpernickle]

Mike, while you are technically correct, in that religious figures sit in the house of lords, they do not have influence in the all important upper chamber, and it would be folly to suggest they have any discernable impact on policy or procedure.

anyway, I cast pearls to swine, as usual. Bad habit.

I'm bored now, thanks for sending me to sleep, Mr Boring.

[maewing]

Dear Pumpernickle,

Actually, I never said that there should not be separation of Church and State. I merely said that states which wish to remain godless should not forcefully influence states like Cyprus and Greece or Italy who wish to continue their traditions of religious identification. (I never said the UK was godless! I said Germany and France had contempt for religion--though you may include the UK if you wish, though it is not in the Eurozone or subject to the Constitution) .

Casual observers would probably agree that it is this religious tradition that served to define much of these countries' history--without them you would not have had the Byzantine Empire, Mount Athos, Stavravouni or the Sistine Chapel. Orthodox believers, however, would argue that it was precisely this belief that enabled Greece to defy the odds and defend themselves when no one else would help during WWII or which kept the Turkish occupation of Northern Cyprus from being an occupation of the whole of Cyprus.

With that said, the Byzantines were the perfect example of ancient separation between Church and State--lasting for over 800 years in that form. The Constantinople Patriarch was never subordinate to the Emperor and, similarly, the affairs of the Church were not that of the State. Indeed, many partriarchs were holy and denied Communion to impious emperors and many emperors were holy and lobbyed (but never forced) impious Patriarchs to be deposed. For the several hundre years (after Constantine), the majority of people were pagans, though Christianity was the official religion. Easter (having both eggs which are Orthodox and rabbits in some places---which were allowed to appease pagans as a fertility god) is an example of this dual state of affairs.

A modern example is the US (I am American by the way) where there is a separation of Church and State and any religion under the sun is free to practice. However, in our pledge of allegiance, we say "one nation, under God".

It is difficult to comment on your suggestion that Cypriots are backwards (or worse) in believing video games are corrupting or that you are throwing "pearls to the swine" (Christ's words to the Canaanite woman). I can only say that true believers (which I pitifully only strive to be) are not hypocrites and while using Christ's words in a discussion would not at the same time advocate "Diablo" (the Devil)--the most popular home video game in history--for their or anyone else's children.