The Best Cyprus Community

Skip to content


Would NAI have been better?

Propose and discuss specific solutions to aspects of the Cyprus Problem

Postby sadik » Tue Jul 04, 2006 9:06 am

Kifeas wrote:The coup was executed by the RoC National Guard's four commando raider battalions (Greek Cypriots) and one -again GC, tank battalion. However, as I said, all these units had on the top of the officer pyramid, mainland Greek officers in charge, which gave the orders.


Kifeas, out of curiosity, how about the other battalions? What did they do during the coup?
sadik
Contributor
Contributor
 
Posts: 295
Joined: Thu Feb 17, 2005 1:17 am
Location: Famagusta

Postby Kifeas » Tue Jul 04, 2006 10:49 am

sadik wrote:
Kifeas wrote:The coup was executed by the RoC National Guard's four commando raider battalions (Greek Cypriots) and one -again GC, tank battalion. However, as I said, all these units had on the top of the officer pyramid, mainland Greek officers in charge, which gave the orders.


Kifeas, out of curiosity, how about the other battalions? What did they do during the coup?


The rest of the N/G units did not participate at the initial stages of the coup, because all important posts (TV, police stations, ministries, etc,) were effectively put in control (or surrendered) within the first 1-2 days. It should be noted that the coupists units (tanks and commandos) had to fight only the presidential quart, but which was weaker in terms of numbers (basically one battalion) and equipment (the coupists had tanks on their side.) However, as soon as the news that Makarios did not die and escaped to Pafos, broader resistance was organized, mainly in Pafos and in Limassol, and therefore other N/G units (mainly some infantry battalions from Nicosia) were mobilized and sent to contain it, either in Limassol or in Pafos. The commando and tank battalions remained in Nicosia in order to guard all the important posts relating with the functioning of the government and to also guard the coupist government. By the time the mobilization and dispersing of those units in Limassol and Pafos, and after some initial fighting that took place, news came from foreign sources and diplomats of Turkey’s intentions to invade, and thus on Friday 19/7 they were all pulled back in Nicosia (but not to their pre-planed dispersing areas in which they were supposed to go in order to confront the Turkish invasion.) This was also true of the commando battalions and the tanks, but also for all the artillery battalions -which, besides this, they had also lent many of their carriage and transport vehicles for the purpose of the coup and the Pafos /Limassol mobilizing. In a nutshell, a complete chaos was created within the National Guard, and together with the assurance from the junta military headquarters in Greece that nothing was going to happened from the part of Turkey and that they "had assurances" from the Americans for this, they remained totally unprepared and did not take any of their planed positions on time, against a possible Turkish invasion. Thus on the morning of the 20th of July, they were all running like mad in daylight and under the full view of the Turkish air force to take positions, something which of course had devastating consequence as many units (entire convoys) were almost completely destroyed from the air-force, while Turkey was already landing (actually "disembarking") troops on the Kyrenia coast.

PS: One detail here is that not the entire force of the 4 commando battalions was used to execute the coup. 1 or 2 days before, all those soldiers that were known or suspected to have been left-wings or Makarios sympathizers were given a 24 or 48 hour live from the camps to visit families, and thus only those that they could trust remained in the camps and were ordered to carry on the coupist attacks on the morning of 15/7. Presumably this was done so that maximum surprise against Makarios guard would have been achieved, as it was always possible for them to have been informed from the inside and thus waiting for the coupists with the full force on duty, which was also quite a strong small army.
User avatar
Kifeas
Main Contributor
Main Contributor
 
Posts: 4927
Joined: Fri Mar 18, 2005 10:19 am
Location: Lapithos, Kyrenia, now Pafos; Cyprus.

Postby sadik » Tue Jul 04, 2006 11:16 am

Kifeas wrote:
sadik wrote:
Kifeas wrote:The coup was executed by the RoC National Guard's four commando raider battalions (Greek Cypriots) and one -again GC, tank battalion. However, as I said, all these units had on the top of the officer pyramid, mainland Greek officers in charge, which gave the orders.


Kifeas, out of curiosity, how about the other battalions? What did they do during the coup?


The rest of the N/G units did not participate at the initial stages of the coup, because all important posts (TV, police stations, ministries, etc,) were effectively put in control (or surrendered) within the first 1-2 days. It should be noted that the coupists units (tanks and commandos) had to fight only the presidential quart, but which was weaker in terms of numbers (basically one battalion) and equipment (the coupists had tanks on their side.) However, as soon as the news that Makarios did not die and escaped to Pafos, broader resistance was organized, mainly in Pafos and in Limassol, and therefore other N/G units (mainly some infantry battalions from Nicosia) were mobilized and sent to contain it, either in Limassol or in Pafos. The commando and tank battalions remained in Nicosia in order to guard all the important posts relating with the functioning of the government and to also guard the coupist government. By the time the mobilization and dispersing of those units in Limassol and Pafos, and after some initial fighting that took place, news came from foreign sources and diplomats of Turkey’s intentions to invade, and thus on Friday 19/7 they were all pulled back in Nicosia (but not to their pre-planed dispersing areas in which they were supposed to go in order to confront the Turkish invasion.) This was also true of the commando battalions and the tanks, but also for all the artillery battalions -which, besides this, they had also lent many of their carriage and transport vehicles for the purpose of the coup and the Pafos /Limassol mobilizing. In a nutshell, a complete chaos was created within the National Guard, and together with the assurance from the junta military headquarters in Greece that nothing was going to happened from the part of Turkey and that they "had assurances" from the Americans for this, they remained totally unprepared and did not take any of their planed positions on time, against a possible Turkish invasion. Thus on the morning of the 20th of July, they were all running like mad in daylight and under the full view of the Turkish air force to take positions, something which of course had devastating consequence as many units (entire convoys) were almost completely destroyed from the air-force, while Turkey was already landing (actually "disembarking") troops on the Kyrenia coast.

PS: One detail here is that not the entire force of the 4 commando battalions was used to execute the coup. 1 or 2 days before, all those soldiers that were known or suspected to have been left-wings or Makarios sympathizers were given a 24 or 48 hour live from the camps to visit families, and thus only those that they could trust remained in the camps and were ordered to carry on the coupist attacks on the morning of 15/7. Presumably this was done so that maximum surprise against Makarios guard would have been achieved, as it was always possible for them to have been informed from the inside and thus waiting for the coupists with the full force on duty, which was also quite a strong small army.


As far as I know, Makarios had broad public support at the time. How did the coupists manage to find enough soldiers to begin with? Also what do you think would happen between the coupists and Makarios supporters, if Turkey had not invaded?
sadik
Contributor
Contributor
 
Posts: 295
Joined: Thu Feb 17, 2005 1:17 am
Location: Famagusta

Postby Kifeas » Tue Jul 04, 2006 12:14 pm

Well, the units that were assigned for the coup, especially the Special Forces (com. raiders, etc,) plus all the GC non-commissioned officers that were sent to Greece, were mainly selected before hand (and since a few yeas before) and trained by the Greek Junta officers in Cyprus on these very grounds, i.e. not to be among the Makarios supporters. Furthermore, within the National Guard there was a lot of anti-Makarios, pro-enosis and anti-leftwing propaganda brainwashing by the same officers, in all units around Cyprus. As a consequence many young soldiers were influenced by all this nationalist rhetoric, and thus also many (not all) became willing to execute orders from these people. Besides this, I am sure you know that line soldiers in the army (any army,) especially when they are young, they do not have much of a choice in following orders from their officers. By the way, even the units that were used during the coup against the presidential palace and other posts, were not told in advance where they were going and for what purpose. This is true especially for the tank battalion that started moving from Lakatamia base to Nicosia for a presumed exercise, and only outside the palace they were told what they were supposed to do. It is for this reason that Makarios decided to ask from the Greek junta to withdraw the Greek officers from Cyprus about two weeks before the coup in a letter he sent to them, on the pre-text that he was going to cut with a law the service duration of the national guard soldiers down to one year, and thus reduce its numbers of the N/G to the half. He wanted to get reed of them and replace them with Cypriots, because of their conspiring activities against him and their material support to the Eoka B’ gangs. Rumors say he also had plans to arrest most of them in a surprise night raid from their camps and homes, using the presidential guard and other paramilitary groups such as the Lyssarides teams, ship them to Greece and replace them with Cypriot officers from the lower ranks, but it seems they moved more quickly than him and did what they were planning and preparing long before. Probably this was sparked by the letter he sent to the Greek junta asking for their withdrawal, through which he revealed his intentions and “compelled” them to move faster and earlier than him.

As for what would have happened to the Makarios sympathizers had Turkey not invaded, I really cannot tell for sure. I am sure some people would have gone “missing,” especially Greek Cypriots of the police and the presidential guard force that were previously engaged in torturing (and there was a lot of it) of all those Eoka B’ gangsters they were arresting before the coup, but I do not imagine this would have taken any massive scale. I believe so because of the international reaction, condemnation and pressure that already started as soon as the coup took place, plus the fact that Cyprus was located far away from Greece and thus Greek troops could /would not have been sent from there in any credible amounts to, in a sense, sufficiently and effectively occupy Cyprus like Turkey could do in the north, and therefore the Greek junta and their officers here would essentially have had to heavily rely on the "co-operation" of the Greek Cypriot public and the Greek Cypriot national guard, in order to maintain control and power. Therefore, logically assuming, it wouldn’t be in their interest to engage in any atrocities against a large section of the public.

To this end, I do not also believe they would have dared to moved against the Turkish Cypriots, since they knew their chances to defend Cyprus from Greece, in case of a Turkish intervention, were not very sound. Furthermore, the Greek Junta in Greece was already in very serious international and European diplomatic troubles, condemnation and pressure, even before the coup, and I suspect they would have been very reluctant in adding another such a heavy bag on their already shaking shoulders and spine, should they have moved against the TCs.

Now, all these are my personal speculations, based on a logical way of interpreting the situation and the climate -both internal and external, of that time and period. What would have happened in reality is something I believe nobody can really tell. The truth is that the prime, if not the only objective of the coup in 1974 was to overthrow and replace Makarios with someone (a puppet) that would more willingly obey their calls and orders. They used the “pro-enosis” sloganeering just in the hope that this would have attracted more sympathy and support among the GC public, rather than what would have been attracted by a plain and an only “anti-Makarios” one.
User avatar
Kifeas
Main Contributor
Main Contributor
 
Posts: 4927
Joined: Fri Mar 18, 2005 10:19 am
Location: Lapithos, Kyrenia, now Pafos; Cyprus.

Postby Iran Forever » Tue Jul 04, 2006 9:35 pm

NAI would be political suicide for Cypriot Greeks, as the only part of Cyprus belonging to Greeks which would be returned would be Varosha and small piece near Ammochostos...bizonal would still not mean Turks would leave Greek land they are living on in the North...the question of property rights of Greeks has still not been resolved, and "NAI" would not only be premature, it would be stupid...I say let the "TRNC" stay isolated forever...they are beginning to feel the hardship of sanctions, embargoes and isolation already, otherwise no Turkish Cypriot would have voted "yes"...this yes was a desperate one, and their desperation even shows when they picket asking for rights to fly direct to other countries....let them choke on their own rope. They can't go on like this for too long. However, what needs to be addressed in the U.N. is the issue of illegal Turkish settlers from mainland Turkey. Just as Jewish settlements on Palestinian land have been condemned by U.N. resolutions, the issue of Turkish settlers in Cyprus should be condemned by U.N. resolutions...it is also a Violation of the Treaty of Guarantee, since changing the demographic make-up of Cyprus IS interference from the mother country Turkey.
User avatar
Iran Forever
Member
Member
 
Posts: 62
Joined: Tue Jul 04, 2006 8:32 pm

Postby Viewpoint » Tue Jul 04, 2006 9:44 pm

We have been living under heavier isolation for the last 46 years, we can hold out as long as it takes dont worry about that. The yes was to the only plan which was put to the referendum and our YES vote should be respected.
User avatar
Viewpoint
Leading Contributor
Leading Contributor
 
Posts: 25211
Joined: Sun Feb 20, 2005 2:48 pm
Location: Nicosia/Lefkosa

please!

Postby Iran Forever » Tue Jul 04, 2006 9:48 pm

Viewpoint...why don't you people think about why no one wants to be friends with you Turks? Remember, "Turkun Turkden bashka dostu yoktur"...even Azeris have no friends (other than Israel and USA which are also Turkey's only friends): "Azerilerin ozunden bashqa dostu yoxdur"...There's a good reason for that...yeah, you'll hold out maybe another two years, or five at most...boy you make me laugh...You Turks love taking other people's land don't you? Even Azerbaijan Republic is illegally occupying Talysh land on Caspian, and Lezgin land in its northern part. Azerbaijan Republic belongs to Iran, the Russians took it from us in 1828. Nothing really belongs to you Turks, since you came from Mongolia.
User avatar
Iran Forever
Member
Member
 
Posts: 62
Joined: Tue Jul 04, 2006 8:32 pm

Postby Viewpoint » Tue Jul 04, 2006 10:00 pm

Its not about having friends but living in peace, tranquility and having a good quality life. We are thankful for all we have in the TRNC. If in 10 20 30 years time something better comes along we will consider it like we did with the Annan plan.

In your wisdom how is it that we will only be able to hold on as you for another 5 years at most?
User avatar
Viewpoint
Leading Contributor
Leading Contributor
 
Posts: 25211
Joined: Sun Feb 20, 2005 2:48 pm
Location: Nicosia/Lefkosa

Postby Iran Forever » Tue Jul 04, 2006 10:15 pm

Your showing signs of weakness already.
User avatar
Iran Forever
Member
Member
 
Posts: 62
Joined: Tue Jul 04, 2006 8:32 pm

Postby sadik » Wed Jul 05, 2006 8:17 am

Kifeas wrote:Well, the units that were assigned for the coup, especially the Special Forces (com. raiders, etc,) plus all the GC non-commissioned officers that were sent to Greece, were mainly selected before hand (and since a few yeas before) and trained by the Greek Junta officers in Cyprus on these very grounds, i.e. not to be among the Makarios supporters. Furthermore, within the National Guard there was a lot of anti-Makarios, pro-enosis and anti-leftwing propaganda brainwashing by the same officers, in all units around Cyprus. As a consequence many young soldiers were influenced by all this nationalist rhetoric, and thus also many (not all) became willing to execute orders from these people. Besides this, I am sure you know that line soldiers in the army (any army,) especially when they are young, they do not have much of a choice in following orders from their officers. By the way, even the units that were used during the coup against the presidential palace and other posts, were not told in advance where they were going and for what purpose. This is true especially for the tank battalion that started moving from Lakatamia base to Nicosia for a presumed exercise, and only outside the palace they were told what they were supposed to do. It is for this reason that Makarios decided to ask from the Greek junta to withdraw the Greek officers from Cyprus about two weeks before the coup in a letter he sent to them, on the pre-text that he was going to cut with a law the service duration of the national guard soldiers down to one year, and thus reduce its numbers of the N/G to the half. He wanted to get reed of them and replace them with Cypriots, because of their conspiring activities against him and their material support to the Eoka B’ gangs. Rumors say he also had plans to arrest most of them in a surprise night raid from their camps and homes, using the presidential guard and other paramilitary groups such as the Lyssarides teams, ship them to Greece and replace them with Cypriot officers from the lower ranks, but it seems they moved more quickly than him and did what they were planning and preparing long before. Probably this was sparked by the letter he sent to the Greek junta asking for their withdrawal, through which he revealed his intentions and “compelled” them to move faster and earlier than him.

As for what would have happened to the Makarios sympathizers had Turkey not invaded, I really cannot tell for sure. I am sure some people would have gone “missing,” especially Greek Cypriots of the police and the presidential guard force that were previously engaged in torturing (and there was a lot of it) of all those Eoka B’ gangsters they were arresting before the coup, but I do not imagine this would have taken any massive scale. I believe so because of the international reaction, condemnation and pressure that already started as soon as the coup took place, plus the fact that Cyprus was located far away from Greece and thus Greek troops could /would not have been sent from there in any credible amounts to, in a sense, sufficiently and effectively occupy Cyprus like Turkey could do in the north, and therefore the Greek junta and their officers here would essentially have had to heavily rely on the "co-operation" of the Greek Cypriot public and the Greek Cypriot national guard, in order to maintain control and power. Therefore, logically assuming, it wouldn’t be in their interest to engage in any atrocities against a large section of the public.

To this end, I do not also believe they would have dared to moved against the Turkish Cypriots, since they knew their chances to defend Cyprus from Greece, in case of a Turkish intervention, were not very sound. Furthermore, the Greek Junta in Greece was already in very serious international and European diplomatic troubles, condemnation and pressure, even before the coup, and I suspect they would have been very reluctant in adding another such a heavy bag on their already shaking shoulders and spine, should they have moved against the TCs.

Now, all these are my personal speculations, based on a logical way of interpreting the situation and the climate -both internal and external, of that time and period. What would have happened in reality is something I believe nobody can really tell. The truth is that the prime, if not the only objective of the coup in 1974 was to overthrow and replace Makarios with someone (a puppet) that would more willingly obey their calls and orders. They used the “pro-enosis” sloganeering just in the hope that this would have attracted more sympathy and support among the GC public, rather than what would have been attracted by a plain and an only “anti-Makarios” one.


Kifeas, thanks for the detailed information. It really is a very critical period of the history of Cyprus and also very interesting. I definitely need to do some reading on the subject.
sadik
Contributor
Contributor
 
Posts: 295
Joined: Thu Feb 17, 2005 1:17 am
Location: Famagusta

PreviousNext

Return to Cyprus Problem Solution Proposals

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 0 guests