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'Why won't Turkey become a full EU member before 2015?'

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'Why won't Turkey become a full EU member before 2015?'

Postby brother » Wed Nov 17, 2004 4:04 pm

'Why won't Turkey become a full EU member before 2015?'

* 'The only standard for starting Turkey talks, is the Copenhagen criteria,' says Dutch Foreign Minister Bot

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ANKARA - Turkish Daily News

Dutch Foreign Minister Bernard Bot said that Turkey could join the European Union by 2015 if EU member states during the Brussels summit decided to open accession talks next year and Ankara fulfilled the EU standards, reported Anatolia news agency.

The minister for EU Term President the Netherlands, responding to questions in Dutch Parliament, said Turkey's entry into the EU by 2015 was realistic.

"If the negotiations start in 2005, if there are no unforeseen circumstances and if Turkey continues with reforms, I don't see any reason why they should not be able to fulfill the criteria. We estimate that the negotiations could last about 10 years," Bot was quoted as saying by Anatolia.

Referring to the EU Copenhagen Summit in 2002, Bot said the EU then promised Turkey to start entry negotiations if it fulfilled the Copenhagen criteria and added the EU would not put forward any new conditions for the start of negotiations with Turkey. "Why wouldn't Turkey be a full member by 2015?" Bot said.

The EU Council is to decide on December 17 whether to open entry negotiations with Ankara, as recommended by the EU Commission last month. The commission said in its report that Ankara had fulfilled the Copenhagen criteria, however it did not offer a starting date for negotiations, like it did for other candidates in the past. The 25 EU member states are to make the decision concerning Turkey's years-long EU bid unanimously.

Bot said the EU presidency was currently examining members' positions on opening accession talks with Ankara. "We are working on a formula that would reflect the views of all member states about starting Turkey talks," he added.

Responding to a question, Bot said the tension between Muslims and the Dutch in the Netherlands, due to the murder of film maker Theo van Gogh's by fundamentalists, would not affect the EU-Turkey relationship. "The only standard is the Copenhagen criteria," he repeated.

Gogh, who was known for his controversial productions about Islamic culture, was shot dead in Amsterdam earlier this month. Gogh had received death threats after his film Submission portrayed violence against women in Islamic societies was shown on Dutch TV. The presumed assassin, a man aged 26, had joint Dutch and Moroccan nationality.
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Postby Rahmi » Mon Nov 22, 2004 7:13 pm

One question to such news might be:

"Does the EU countries satisfy the criterions asked from Turkey?"

For which the answer is no in the following cases:

France: There exists no recognition of the minor nations or ethnicities in the French Republic. Britons, Basks and Catalans living under French rule, by law, are considered to be French. There does not exist any radio or television broadcasts in those languages. Actually, speaking those languages were forbidden just until ten years ago or so. In Britany there still remains signs in some public places, warning "It is forbidden to speak Breton!".

Greece: The Greece government denies the existence of the Turkish minority, claiming them to be muslim Greeks. There does not exists any radio or television broadcasts in the Turkish language. Overall the practice of Islam is suppressed by practical measures all over the country. There does not exist a mosque in Athens, despite its tens of thousands of muslim inhabitants.

Italy: Italy is not a secular state. It's laws and policies are openly influenced by the clergy. Although this happens with the partial support of the public opinion, there are built-in mechanisms within the constitution that encourage non-secular practices.

So, does anyone have any idea on what grounds does the EU base its decisions?
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Postby Piratis » Mon Nov 22, 2004 7:49 pm

So what you are saying is that there shouldn't be any double standards, right?

So instead of comparing Turkey with France, why don't you compare the double standards that exist between Turkey and Cyprus? Why they didn't offer the Annan plan for Turkey between Turks and Kurds for example?

So? Do you want double standards or not?
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Postby -mikkie2- » Tue Nov 23, 2004 1:39 am

What a load of rubbish!

I have been to France many times. There are no laws barring people from not speaking any language other than French. There are english speaking radio stations in France. British people living in France are considered English! There is freedom of worship in France. France has one of the highest muslim populations in Europe.

With the example of Greece, the Turks of Greece have doubled in population since the 1920's. Contrast this with the virtual elimination of Greeks from Turkey. How many Greeks now live in Turkey? Fewer than ten thousand! How many Tirks live in Greece? A couple of hundred thousand!

It is the EU that will lay the conditions of Turkish membership, not Turkey!
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Postby pantelis » Tue Nov 23, 2004 3:10 am

I predict another military coup, in Turkey, in 2006.
If I am not wrong, how is the EU going to react to this developement?
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Postby brother » Tue Nov 23, 2004 5:16 pm

suspend membership negotiations, thats how.
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Postby Rahmi » Tue Nov 23, 2004 8:22 pm

-mikkie2- wrote:What a load of rubbish!

I have been to France many times. There are no laws barring people from not speaking any language other than French. There are english speaking radio stations in France. British people living in France are considered English! There is freedom of worship in France.


So, although you have been to France many times, you never realized that on the northwest of the country, there are people which are called Briton or Breton. They have a language originating from Celtic, and the region is called Brittany.
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Postby -mikkie2- » Wed Nov 24, 2004 2:00 am

So what are you suggesting Ramhi? That the people of Brittany are being forced to speak French? That they are not allowed to speak their language?

What about the Kurds, oh sorry, should I say Turks, because in Turkey there are no minorities, just Turks, right?

If you are espousing autonomy for regions in France or any other EU state then perhaps Turkey should lead by example and do the same in Turkey. Of course that will never happen!

At the end of the day, it is Turkey that wants to join the club. Turkey has to play by the clubs rules.
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Postby brother » Wed Nov 24, 2004 1:23 pm

mikkie is right on this one as it is turkey who wants to join the club so you will have to play by their rules, may i add if there is double standards during the negotiations period nothing stops turkey from airing these points for the E.U to look into and correct if deemed right.
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Postby Rahmi » Wed Nov 24, 2004 10:52 pm

My view is that the whole process is just an effort to take concessions out of Turkey. Turkey will never be a part of EU. More'n more conditions will be created as the previous ones are fullfilled. Look back at the Ottoman History. Remember "Tanzimat Fermani"...

The process of negotiations will be good, in the sense that Turks will know with what kind of people they are trying to do business with. This will prove that Europe is neither secular nor democratic. The right-wing politicians within the union have managed to steal away the initial good will which gave Turkey the promise of membership in 1960.

Now EU is becoming the zombie of the old sacred Christian alliance. It is not a nice sight to see, especially when one believes in those values that the Union claims to hold as principals.
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