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The 2 Alternative solutions

Propose and discuss specific solutions to aspects of the Cyprus Problem

The 2 Alternative solutions

Postby Piratis » Mon Nov 29, 2004 8:40 pm

Some time ago I proposed a solution framework:

As I always say, the final solution should create an independent, federal, democratic united Cyprus.

Independent:
Cypriots should be the only ones that can take decisions for Cyprus. Everything of course should be within the rules and spirit of EU. The UN and EU can guarantee our new state, but not Greece, Turkey, UK or other separate countries. Ideally, no foreign country should maintain troops in Cyprus, but an agreement can be reached for small armies to continue to be based here, but without the right to intervene.

Federal:
We will have a federal system. Each community will have its own state with its own police, educational system etc. Within this state the majority of residents should always come from the equivalent community, and special restrictions should be in place to maintain this. Each state will have its own parliament and laws as long as they do not contradict with the central government laws and the laws of EU.

The central state will be above the federal states and will take care of things that involve the island as a whole (economy, federal police, tourism etc). Both communities should be represented with ministers and personnel according to a specified ratio. Critical matters will require not only a simple majority, but also separate majorities from each state.

Democratic:
The governments of each state will be elected by its own residents. The majority of residents will come from the equivalent community.
The central government will come from all Cypriots. If the system will be presidential this means one Cypriot, one vote. We can adopt a system like in the US where president and vice president are elected at the same time and require that they are from different communities.

United:
One and only citizenship, a united economy, freedom of movement, goods and services. We are all Cypriots first and above all.


What is unfortunate is that I was accused that by asking for democracy, what I want is supposedly to dominate TCs and a bunch of other crap.

So here is an alternative solution for those that don't want all Cypriots to live together as equal Cyprus citizens:

TCs get 18% of the land, just like their population. (TCs actually own 12.5% of land, but anyways). And thats it.
No union, no federation, no Annan plan, no british bases (except if the british want to go to the TC country) nothing!

Later on if the TCs want to join us in a federation, or they want to join the EU, we will discuss the terms as two independent countries.

Is there anybody that disagrees with both solution proposals?
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Postby brother » Mon Nov 29, 2004 10:31 pm

What are you doing piratis, trying to alienate everyone.
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Re: The 2 Alternative solutions

Postby turkcyp » Thu Dec 02, 2004 12:54 am

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Postby brother » Thu Dec 02, 2004 12:01 pm

piratis does have good ideas but he gets side tracked very easily and brings up the past constantly. 8)
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Postby Alasya » Thu Dec 02, 2004 1:46 pm

I don`t disagree with what Piratis has said in theory, but I do have a conflict with one of his suggestions. Again this brings me back to the same population issue discussed earlier.


Piratis Quote:

"TCs get 18% of the land, just like their population. (TCs actually own 12.5% of land, but anyways). And thats it.
No union, no federation, no Annan plan, no british bases (except if the british want to go to the TC country) nothing! "


This golden figure of 18% is based on a 1960 population census! who can say with certainty that we are 18% now? There hasn`t been a island wide population census for 44 years. We could be less than 18% or more.

And who is to say, the last census was accurate? Turkish Cypriot records disappeared from registry offices across Cyprus then. Hadly inspires confidence! There was also evidence of jerrymandering, even archives were modified, why not official statistics too? It was a majority Greek Cypriot government, after all.

Other Turkish Cypriots seem to have allowed this remark to slip, but I am personally not happy with accepting a figure that based on out-dated evidence. I often hear many non-Cypriots refer to us as 18%, it has almost become tradition.

My own GUESS, that is all it is, is that the Turkish Cypriot population which inevitably will include some if not all of the Turkish settlers, is more likely to be anything from 24-30% of the entire population of Cyprus. Christofias has already said, he is prepared to accept 50,000 settlers but no more. But because we don`t even know the exact number of settlers and what constitutes a "settler", we can`t make a guess either.

Turkish Cypriots may own 12.5% of private land, but you failed to mention that Turkish Cypriots own 30% of state land, based on the agreed 1960 ratio of 30:70. State land accounts for 26,3% of all land in Cyprus, and as partners in a cyprus government, Turkish Cypriots are entiltled to 30% of it.

You also failed to look at the issue of property (houses, businesses). One of the wealthiest landlords in Cyprus was a Turkish Cypriot, who still owns many of the houses in Larnaca where refugee families are living.

You should read G.Karouzis, Proposals for a solution to the Cyprus Problem, Nicosia, Cyprus, 1976. He has many good pages on statistics and land and other property ownership, the author is a geographer by profession, so he understand land issues.
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Postby Piratis » Thu Dec 02, 2004 6:40 pm

Alasya, your response doesn't surprise me. It was pretty obvious to me that some Turkish Cypriots are greedy and want to gain on our back as much as possible.

Turkish Cypriots are about 18%. If you can add numbers for TCs, then you should make the same additions for GCs.

If we agree on "solution 2" then you get your 18% of land, and if you want you can pack in there 10 million Turks and whomever else you want. That would not be our problem anymore.

Anyways, as I said it is pretty clear what some TCs are telling us: "We have the tanks of Turkey behind us, and we will try to screw you in one way or another".

Judging from these, would i be bad if in the future, when the balance of power will change, I will support something that will violate the basic human rights of TCs?
You talk about crimes of the past that excuse your crimes of today. Should we also use your crimes of today as an excuse for future crimes?
If the answer is yes, then I guess all we have to do is wait. If the answer is no, then you should stop your crimes against us right now.
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Postby erolz » Thu Dec 02, 2004 7:06 pm

Piratis wrote:It was pretty obvious to me that some Turkish Cypriots are greedy and want to gain on our back as much as possible.


Is it also obvious to you that some people (of all races including GC) are greedy and want to gain off the backs of others?

Really Piratis do you have the slightest idea as to how insulting and offensive it is to 'normal' TC to try and portray the problems in Cyprus today as being caused and continued purely by a TC desire to steal from GC? How such an approach does NOTHING to help create reproachment and renuinifcation but does much to create hatered.

Greed is NOT the cause of Cyprus' situation today. It is NOT the reason for a failure to find a settlement. Why do you continue to insist it is unless to fuel hatred?

TC are not more or less greedy than GC. TC are no more or less 'thieves' than GC. They are no more or less human than GC.
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Postby brother » Thu Dec 02, 2004 7:10 pm

Piratis why do you insist on putting your foot in your mouth and when you do take it out only to stick the other foot in.
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Postby Piratis » Thu Dec 02, 2004 7:49 pm

TC are not more or less greedy than GC. TC are no more or less 'thieves' than GC. They are no more or less human than GC.


Then why TCs that are 18% do not accept 18% of land? If they want more land, it means they have to take it from somebody else. They want to take our land!! If this is not stealing and greediness then what is it?

Why don't you answer. Do you accept solution 2?
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Postby turkcyp » Thu Dec 02, 2004 8:35 pm

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