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US type Federal System in Cyprus

Propose and discuss specific solutions to aspects of the Cyprus Problem

Postby turkcyp » Thu Dec 02, 2004 8:11 pm

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Postby Piratis » Thu Dec 02, 2004 8:15 pm

If you call me a Greek and I object to that because I am not a Greek does this mean that I think being Greek is bad?


If you say "I am not a mere Greek", then yes, it would mean that you think being Greek is bad.

Also, if numbers do not matter, then Armenians and Maronites, have as much differences in language, culture, religion etc as TCs have. So why they are a minority and TCs are not?

You are just applying double standards.

You have to decide:
Do numbers matter or not?
Is being a minority bad or not?
etc.

And apply this equally for everybody.

Just for a reference her is what tcypriot said in another thread:

In Switzerland there are 4 different official languages. Romanian which is spoken by around %0.5 of the Swiss people is also an official language.In Switzerland cantons that have one tenth(1/10) the population of the neighbouring ones have political equality with each other
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Postby Piratis » Thu Dec 02, 2004 8:23 pm

like changing 1960 constitution without our approval


This has been discussed before. In 1963 Makarios made proposals for changes, but since TCs didn't approve those changes they were not implemented.
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Postby turkcyp » Thu Dec 02, 2004 8:28 pm

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Postby insan » Thu Dec 02, 2004 9:02 pm

So we will have the GC state, the TC state, the Armenian state, the Latin state, and the Marnonite state. 2+2+2+2+2=10 senators.

Do your calculations again.



:lol: :lol:


According to Piratis simple logic there should have been over 1.000 states in US.


:lol: :lol: :lol: :?: :idea: :arrow: :wink:
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Postby erolz » Thu Dec 02, 2004 9:34 pm

Piratis wrote:
If you call me a Greek and I object to that because I am not a Greek does this mean that I think being Greek is bad?


If you say "I am not a mere Greek", then yes, it would mean that you think being Greek is bad.


So you want to play word games (to try and defend your false logic). OK imagine I am a General in the army and you inist on calling me a mere corporal. If I object to being called a mere corporal (or even a corporal) does this mean that I think being a corporal is bad. No it does not. What is 'bad' is your insistance on being called something I am not.

Piratis wrote:Also, if numbers do not matter, then Armenians and Maronites, have as much differences in language, culture, religion etc as TCs have. So why they are a minority and TCs are not?


How many times are we going to go round and round these same loops over and over again? Do you hope to 'win' by attrition? We have had this discussion before. At that time I presented a series of 'learned' articles and opinions as too what are the criteria for determining what constitutes a 'people' (as far as human rights re self determination go). These clearly show that the issue is complex and that there are a series of 'criteris' that can and are used in such determinations and that numbers is ONE factor and that there is no 'magic number' but the greater the number the clearer the case. Of course at the time you dismissed every 'learned' (and independent) opinion I cited and reffered to on the basis that 'you can find an expert to say anything and I could find ones that say the oposite to what those you refer to say - though did not actualy bither to do so). So no several months that you return to the same subject as if we had never discussed this issue before.

Piratis wrote:You are just applying double standards.


Try a mirror.

Piratis wrote:You have to decide:
Do numbers matter or not?


Yes they do but they are not the only issue and there is no 'magic number' (not majority, not 30% not 10%)

Piratis wrote:Is being a minority bad or not?
etc.


Being a minority is not bad. It can be bad depending on where you live as a minority. Certainly living as a TC numerical minority in Cyprus in the period 63-74 was no barrel of laughs (though of course that is all the fault of Turkey, TC, the USA the rest of the world, martians or anybody but GC). However ALL of this misses the point. The point is if you believe that your community is not a minority and justly should have more rights in its own homeland that those granted to minorites (and peoples DO have more rights than minorites) then yes it is 'bad' to be called and deemed and treated like a minority. GC were not particularly enamoured of being a minority (of British Empire subjects) in their own country pre 1960. I think they would have responded to arguments that they had the same equal rights as any other British Empire subject and that there was nothing 'bad' in being such minority as TC do to your 'lectures'.

Is this all a strategy Piratis? Are you saying these things because you want to provoke a reaction? Are you actualy trying to force confrontation? Are you trying to bait me (us)? Have you just had a bad day and need to take it out on someone. I am at a loss as to what you think you are achieving by repeating the same old tiered discussions over and over , starting from the begining each time as if there had been no prior discussion. Of course I am working on a basic assumption that you DO want to see progress - which increasingly I am being forced to reasses as a basic assumption.
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Postby brother » Fri Dec 03, 2004 4:01 pm

QUESTION:

Now the ROC is a member of the E.U and being a small country(400,000 people in say 200 million or so) are you a minority in this union or an equal partner.


ANSWER:


?
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Postby -mikkie2- » Fri Dec 03, 2004 4:08 pm

Brother,

We are an equal partner in the EU in the areas where unanimous voting is required.

In the EU Commission, each member state has 1 representative with equal responsibility.

In the EP, well that is where we are represented by our numbers - we have 6 out of a total of 600 or so seats.
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Postby erolz » Fri Dec 03, 2004 4:20 pm

-mikkie2- wrote:In the EP, well that is where we are represented by our numbers - we have 6 out of a total of 600 or so seats.


Actually you are 'over represented' there as well, if you work out how population you have per Euro MP and compare it with larger states like the UK, Germany and France. Still democracy is a funny thing.
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Postby metecyp » Fri Dec 03, 2004 4:33 pm

erolz wrote:Actually you are 'over represented' there as well, if you work out how population you have per Euro MP and compare it with larger states like the UK, Germany and France. Still democracy is a funny thing.

We talked about this before. Typical response you would get is "EU is a union not a country and if you don't like the representation in the EU, you can leave". Apparently, democracy applies differently in different situations (country vs. union).
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