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Proposal to Simplify Property Issue

Propose and discuss specific solutions to aspects of the Cyprus Problem

Postby Viewpoint » Tue May 03, 2005 11:41 am

Kifeas
I am not saying that the RoC might not attempt to inhibit it.


Thats what I said all along, you will not be able to go through with such a sale, so many obsticles will be put in your path that you will give up. I am stiill expecting details of your property if you want to go ahead unless you wish to pay me the 100.000 pounds now??? a bet is a bet dont you agree Kifeas?
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Postby Kifeas » Tue May 03, 2005 12:03 pm

Viewpoint wrote:Kifeas
I am not saying that the RoC might not attempt to inhibit it.


Thats what I said all along, you will not be able to go through with such a sale, so many obsticles will be put in your path that you will give up. I am stiill expecting details of your property if you want to go ahead unless you wish to pay me the 100.000 pounds now??? a bet is a bet dont you agree Kifeas?


VP read my posting for Mike more carefully and try to consolidate what I said.
Furthermore, I believe it is not to the interest of the RoC to let such a case to reach the ECHR, because it will damage the case of other GCs against Turkey. RoC will appear in the eyes of the court as acting in a similar way like Turkey, which also deprives me from my property rights. That means that in the end they will have to allow the transfer (sale.)

Whatever the obstacles might be, I am more than sure that I will overcome them.

Now back to our bet. Naturally, in saying that the RoC will not be able to stop me, I also consider the possibility to take her to the courts, in order to achieve the sale. What I am betting on is on the final outcome; even if that means that it may be reached after going to a court. I hope this was clear.
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Postby brother » Tue May 03, 2005 12:09 pm

Kifeas,

so are you really going to persue this ambition for whatever reasons or are you playing the assumption game, as i would really be interested in how you would get on and follow the case with great interest, as you know this could open the doors formany more GC to sell their properties and to me that would be an excellent piece of news for many, would you not agree.
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Postby Kifeas » Tue May 03, 2005 12:15 pm

micatcyp wrote:The fact is that the value of land when sold outside the juristiction of the State is infinite


What do you mean outside the jurisdiction of the state? My property in the north is not outside the jurisdiction of the RoC. If it was, then how and why a RoC court undertook the trial of the Apostolides –vs- Orams case. No it is not outside the jurisdiction of the RoC. The land, will continue to remain under the jurisdiction of the RoC even after the sale. It will not change country or emigrate.

What do you mean the value of land in infinite?

micatcyp wrote:Perhaps the only way for you to sell your property in the occupied is to sell it to another GC or Tc who already resides permanently in the free areas, and as you know such buyers don't really exist.


Why not to any other E.U citizen or to a TC residing in the occupied areas? Have all these TC citizens of the RoC ever been deprived of their rights to buy and sell under the legal system of the RoC? Who said this to you?

The only derogation to their rights that TCs living in the north indeed have, is that of selling their own properties in the south -right away and instead, through a law, they are required to reside permanently in the free areas for at least 6 months. Even this is questionable. Apart from this, they are entitled to every other right that all the GCs have.
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Postby Kifeas » Tue May 03, 2005 12:24 pm

brother wrote:Kifeas,

so are you really going to persue this ambition for whatever reasons or are you playing the assumption game, as i would really be interested in how you would get on and follow the case with great interest, as you know this could open the doors formany more GC to sell their properties and to me that would be an excellent piece of news for many, would you not agree.


Well, you have to wait further and you will understand were I am leading this conversation.

Remember, it all started from a claim that Turkcyp made that the RoC doesn't allow the GCs to sell their properties in the north. According to his to his opinion and claim, had the RoC allowed this to go on it would have helped solving to some extend the property issue. I contradicted this opinion of Turkcyp as a non-valid. Read further back and you will understand how this conversation started.
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Postby erolz » Tue May 03, 2005 12:28 pm

Kifeas wrote: Furthermore, I believe it is not to the interest of the RoC to let such a case to reach the ECHR, because it will damage the case of other GCs against Turkey. RoC will appear in the eyes of the court as acting in a similar way like Turkey, which also deprives me from my property rights. That means that in the end they will have to allow the transfer (sale.)

Whatever the obstacles might be, I am more than sure that I will overcome them.

Now back to our bet. Naturally, in saying that the RoC will not be able to stop me, I also consider the possibility to take her to the courts, in order to achieve the sale. What I am betting on is on the final outcome; even if that means that it may be reached after going to a court. I hope this was clear.


I would welcome you prooving your point but I can not help but think you will lose (finacially) what ever happens. If the RoC does mange to stop your sale then you lose £100,000 (btw is this sterling or cyprus pounds or either just so we know up front) plus all your egal fees. If on the other hand you do mange to force the RoC into allowing the sale I can not see your £1000 won comming any where near close to your legal fees. Still if you are still game and do not want an exorbitant price for your land here then I am sure a buyer can be found :)
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Postby Kifeas » Tue May 03, 2005 12:40 pm

erolz wrote:
Kifeas wrote: Furthermore, I believe it is not to the interest of the RoC to let such a case to reach the ECHR, because it will damage the case of other GCs against Turkey. RoC will appear in the eyes of the court as acting in a similar way like Turkey, which also deprives me from my property rights. That means that in the end they will have to allow the transfer (sale.)

Whatever the obstacles might be, I am more than sure that I will overcome them.

Now back to our bet. Naturally, in saying that the RoC will not be able to stop me, I also consider the possibility to take her to the courts, in order to achieve the sale. What I am betting on is on the final outcome; even if that means that it may be reached after going to a court. I hope this was clear.



I would welcome you prooving your point but I can not help but think you will lose (finacially) what ever happens. If the RoC does mange to stop your sale then you lose £100,000 (btw is this sterling or cyprus pounds or either just so we know up front) plus all your egal fees. If on the other hand you do mange to force the RoC into allowing the sale I can not see your £1000 won comming any where near close to your legal fees. Still if you are still game and do not want an exorbitant price for your land here then I am sure a buyer can be found :)


When I speak about (£) currency I always mean Cyprus pounds, as it is the only official currency of Cyprus.

If I win a case against the RoC in any court then she will be asked (ordered) to pay my legal expenses.

Now, I will make another bed with you or anyone else interested. If you will manage to find me a decent buyer, irrespective of the means (legal or not) by which I will force the RoC to accept the transaction, I will give you 5% of commission. However the buyer has to be a serious one, with financial proof and who will be willing to wait for some time until I secure the title transfer to him. I believe this is fair, isn’t it?

Accepted?
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Postby erolz » Tue May 03, 2005 12:49 pm

Kifeas wrote: Now, I will make another bed with you or anyone else interested. If you will manage to find me a decent buyer, irrespective of the means (legal or not) by which I will force the RoC to accept the transaction, I will give you 5% of commission. However the buyer has to be a serious one, with financial proof and who will be willing to wait for some time until I secure the title transfer to him. I believe this is fair, isn’t it?

Accepted?


If you are serious about this and if you are willing to accept a realistic price for your land here I will pledge to do my best to find you a serious buyer and ask no comission what so ever. Depending on the size, location, current ocupancy and price of your land I may even consider buying myself. Maybe the TRNC would consider buying it. I do not know and can not begin to find out until you let me know ehere it is and what price you want for it (by PM if you wish).
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Postby Viewpoint » Tue May 03, 2005 12:55 pm

Kifeas, lets take it one step at a time.

Kindly provide details of your property so that we can find you a buyer be it TC GC English Israeli whatever.

Then we can take it from there.

We can keep everyone posted.

But I insist that we deposit the amounts we have agreed into safe keeping so that we are certain that if one of us loses then the money will be there to meet the commitment.

Agreed????

I am sure you will not renege on our bet as it was made in front all forum members.
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Postby Kifeas » Tue May 03, 2005 1:02 pm

erolz wrote:
Kifeas wrote: As a test to prove you are wrong, I challenge you to find me one buyer for my property in the north and then we will see if the RoC can indeed stop me from selling it. I bet 100,000 pounds and I ask you bet only 1,000 on it, that I can sell it and RoC will have no choice other than transferring the title deeds.


Where is it and how much do you want for it? I might even take the bet as well - I like 100:1 odds :)


My property (land) is in Lapithos (Lapta to you) right on the seaside. It has an area 10,577 sq. meters, which is equivalent to 7.91 donums. It is on Sheet plan: XI. 6. W1, W2. Plot numbers 14 & 14

The market value of this land in 1973 was estimated at £7,000 per donum and was among the most expensive areas of Cyprus at those times., Therefore the total in 1973 was about £ 55,000 . It is suitable for tourism development (i.e, build a hotel, etc.) 100 meters to it's left there is a very beautiful sandy beach. Similar land anywhere in the south is valued today at around £200,000 per donum. I want to sell this land in order to buy an equivalent one in the south and build my hotel in the south since Turkey doesn't allow me to do so in the north.

How much should I sell it for?
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