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Proposal to Simplify Property Issue

Propose and discuss specific solutions to aspects of the Cyprus Problem

Postby erolz » Tue May 03, 2005 9:35 pm

Kifeas wrote: After all the RoC, in order to proceed to the title transfer, would charge me 3% on the property's estimated market value, as a nominal transfer tax. You want me to sell it for one pound and then also pay out of my pocket perhaps an additional 40 or 50 thousand pounds to the government as transfer taxes.


Thats an interesting detail. Would the RoC base the market value on RoC equivalents or on TRNC equivalents?
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Postby Kifeas » Tue May 03, 2005 9:36 pm

turkcyp wrote:My friend,

Sorry to ask you but how old are you? Because you seem to live in this utopian world where everything goes by the book and according to law. (I am seriously not trying to insult or anything, I wish I can be like you as well, but I guess I am much more jaded)


Actually I was also thinking of asking you the same question (how old you are) for exactly the same reason. You are the one who lives in a utopia I believe.

Anyway, I do not plan to continue on this subject any longer. I know what I know and obviously you know what you know. Let us each one live in their utopias.
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Postby Kifeas » Tue May 03, 2005 9:39 pm

erolz wrote:
Kifeas wrote: After all the RoC, in order to proceed to the title transfer, would charge me 3% on the property's estimated market value, as a nominal transfer tax. You want me to sell it for one pound and then also pay out of my pocket perhaps an additional 40 or 50 thousand pounds to the government as transfer taxes.


Thats an interesting detail. Would the RoC base the market value on RoC equivalents or on TRNC equivalents?


I am not sure but I would expect them to base it on RoC equivalents.
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Postby turkcyp » Tue May 03, 2005 9:49 pm

Kifeas wrote:Actually I was also thinking of asking you the same question (how old you are) for exactly the same reason. You are the one who lives in a utopia I believe.

Anyway, I do not plan to continue on this subject any longer. I know what I know and obviously you know what you know. Let us each one live in their utopias.


In what way you think I live in utopia. May be you can help me wake up?

Do you think me trying to buy the plot from pre-74 owner is utopian? And if so why?

May be you can save me time and money in trying to engage in locating this dude.
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Postby Viewpoint » Tue May 03, 2005 9:54 pm

Kifeas I get the impression you are all talk and are now reneging on our bet, you have twisted and contorted so many words changing your tune to throw people off the real issue, which is can GCs sell their property in the north, you have been purposefully misleading us all keeping information back about the current status of the property to attract attention from all members of the forum, only to say well you cant get a good price so thats that, its the norths fault like always that I cannot sell my land, it not the squeeky clean "RoC" that stopping me.
If you read my last thread you would have noticed that we would not actually go through with the sale for 1 Cyprus pound but we would test whether is was possible. My claim was that you could not enact the transaction and many obsticles would be out in your way until you gave up.

Its obvious you were not genuine and had no intention to go through with it, because if you were successful then many GCs would sell up and thus increase the land ownership of TCs to levels that would never be acceptable by your administration.
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Postby insan » Tue May 03, 2005 9:56 pm

May be you can save me time and money in trying to engage in locating this dude.


If the owner of the land haven't visited you yet; most probably the land you built your house on might belong to GC church.
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Postby Kifeas » Tue May 03, 2005 10:11 pm

turkcyp wrote:
Kifeas wrote:Actually I was also thinking of asking you the same question (how old you are) for exactly the same reason. You are the one who lives in a utopia I believe.

Anyway, I do not plan to continue on this subject any longer. I know what I know and obviously you know what you know. Let us each one live in their utopias.


In what way you think I live in utopia. May be you can help me wake up?

Do you think me trying to buy the plot from pre-74 owner is utopian? And if so why?

May be you can save me time and money in trying to engage in locating this dude.



This is the utopia scenario you suggested.

turkcyp wrote:But RoC can simplify this whole issue. My proposal is this. Why doesn’t RoC allow the sale of all of the property in the north and also allow the sale of TC property in the south?

I believe if this is let to happen, the current users of the GC property in the north can find an acceptable settlement for the property with the GC owners of the property. This is most probably will include the sale of the GC property by the GC to its current user for an acceptable price, or some other kind of mutually agreed settlement between the two personal parties without involving any of the governments.


I believe the whole discussion between me and Erol regarding my property, which is a typical example of most of GC properties in the north, precisely proves that your above suggestions are not feasible and this is not due to the RoC non allowance of sales, but due to the way the so-called "TRNC" dealt with the whole issue of GC properties in the north. In other words, your suggestion for finding mutually acceptable settlements between original GC owners and current users is a totally utopic assumption, unless you were expecting the GCs to donate their properties almost for free or for peanuts to the "current" users, most of whom are foreigners and settlers.
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Postby turkcyp » Tue May 03, 2005 10:24 pm

Kifeas wrote:I believe the whole discussion between me and Erol regarding my property, which is a typical example of most of GC properties in the north, precisely proves that your above suggestions are not feasible and this is not due to the RoC non allowance of sales, but due to the way the so-called "TRNC" dealt with the whole issue of GC properties in the north. In other words, your suggestion for finding mutually acceptable settlements between original GC owners and current users is a totally utopic assumption, unless you were expecting the GCs to donate their properties almost for free or for peanuts to the "current" users, most of whom are foreigners and settlers.


- Why do you think every property is as valuable as yours? I am sure price difference in properties located on Mesarya for example (GC and TC side) are not that much. So there may always be some TC who can find a GC to buy the land. Even one less person measn less problem in the future don't you agree.

- Also why do you think every GC is like you. May be some GCs are so against living among TCs that even in the case of solution they would be more inclined to sell. More inclination to sell means on the case of seller means more barganing power for the buyer.

In short what I was trying to say is that, there may be some (may be not many) people who can reach into private deals like what I have suggested and even one means less trouble in the future.

Take care,
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Postby erolz » Tue May 03, 2005 10:33 pm

turkcyp wrote: In short what I was trying to say is that, there may be some (may be not many) people who can reach into private deals like what I have suggested and even one means less trouble in the future.

Take care,


As I sse it there may also be some GC that consider real cash in the bank now is more value to them than much greater _possible_ value in the future than may also be no value in the future. Of course this decision is entirely theirs to make, but should they chose to make it they should not be stopped (or forced to battle through the courts) to do so imo. It's just like selling shares really. You take cash now at market price now , vs potential gain or loss in future.
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Postby MicAtCyp » Tue May 03, 2005 11:51 pm

Mic wrote: The fact is that the value of land when sold outside the juristiction of the State is infinite


Kifeas wrote: What do you mean outside the jurisdiction of the state?


Wrong syntax or inaccurate explanation from my end perhaps...
An example of this would be for the Greek state to sell part of the border land of Greece to the Bulgarian State and abandoning any future juristiction on those lands. Or to sell lets say 16 square kilometers of land of Turkey to the USA to have them as completely sovereign and independent state or an extension of their American state.These sales are not permitted even if the buyer is willing to pay 100 times the value of that land. Sales of properties to other countries (e,g to have an embassy) are permitted as long as the State retains juristiction over those properties. Thats what I wanted to say.

Kifeas wrote: My property in the north is not outside the jurisdiction of the RoC.


Exactly! And it has YOU in hand to substantiate her juristiction.Losing you and losing all the other GC refugees for TCs residing in the occupied, and you will see how much juristiction she will be left with in the end! So it has very valid legal reasons to protect her own existence as a state by depriving you that right, and like I said not even the ECHR can save you, because your individual rights are not superior to the rights of the State to protect itself. You can of course ask compensation for it as every other refugee.The state violated the rights of the refugees all these years to the worse possible degree.(My wife is a refugee by the way, so I know how you feel)

wrote: Why not to any other E.U citizen or to a TC residing in the occupied areas? Have all these TC citizens of the RoC ever been deprived of their rights to buy and sell under the legal system of the RoC?


Well the fact is the TCs living in the occupied are deprived the right to sell or buy immovable properties in RoC.And you are also deprived your right to sell to TCs in the occupied.And there is not any chance that you would buy any land from a TC or a Gc in the occupied is there? Regarding the EU citizens tell me which one would be willing to buy your property and then buy it again from the TC who "has" it. And what if he buys it from you and the TC refuses to sell??


Of course I understand your question concerns the reasons why the RoC would deprive you the right to sell your property in the occupied to an EU citizen if that very remote possibility ever occured. To this question I say it will not deprive you that right. Because it will continue have control on that citizen through the EU.She will ask for her taxes for that property,for her 10% just for issuing the title and in case that EU citizen goes ahead developing that property "illegally" and violating all our laws he will be in so much trouble that he will curse the day he even bought it from you. And be sure many CID police will be watching his every step. I leave aside the fact that in the end he will not be able to sell it to anyone....
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