Cyprus-Forum.com

[PEACE]

You do not pay taxes, you do not care to respect the laws, you support the illigal stealing of properties of 200.000 people, and then you say that we treat you badly because the passport you get is for 2 years instead of 10. Please, give me a break!!!!.

We are not working in South and not earning money in South! Of course for every right we get we have to pay releated taxes.Thats ok!

You can stop supporting the illigal state of the north and join the Rebublic of Cyprus and you will be exactly equal to any other Cypriot. Do not forget that TCs are not the only minority in Cyprus

We accept a peace with Annan Plan! U say that u want federal solution then saying "join to RC".Don't u know that RC is not a federal goverment!?
As number we can be less than u! But number only doesn't show we are minority.

Again I will repeat that because you do not want to live united with us we agreed on a federation system.

No thats wrong.We want Annan Plan Style federal solution!We'll have two states equal.But in foreign affairs we'll seem as one.In internal affairs we'll be sovereign and independent.

Unfortunatly it seems to me that the only reason you want a solution now is the EU

You are wrong.We see Annan Plan that gives us most of the rights and the style we want so we are supporting peace that will come with Annan Plan.

The Republic of Cyprus is the one who is going to join the EU on May 1st.

Yes thats true ! But this is true if there won't be a solution! If there will be a solution United Cyprus will enter to EU.Not RC!

[Guest]

We are not working in South and not earning money in South! Of course for every right we get we have to pay releated taxes.Thats ok!

You are working, owning property and everything in the Republic of Cyprus. Republic of Cyprus is the whole island, not just the "south". And the RC is the one that gives the rights also. So if you say "south", does this mean that you do not recognize the state that you expect the rights from?

We accept a peace with Annan Plan! U say that u want federal solution then saying "join to RC".Don't u know that RC is not a federal goverment!?
As number we can be less than u! But number only doesn't show we are minority.

Yes, Republic of Cyprus is not a federation. Federation was a compromise from our part but you keep asking for more. Annan's plan is more of a confederation rather than a federation. We want a clear federation, like the one in the USA that CypRiot mentioned before.
And number alone does show that you are a minority. Check out the dictionary: http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=minority

No thats wrong. We want Annan Plan Style federal solution!We'll have two states equal.But in foreign affairs we'll seem as one.In internal affairs we'll be sovereign and independent.

Ok, then we want one united country. No federation or anything!
What I am saying is that you cannot get exactly what you want, like we can't get exactly what we want. You have to compromise if you want a solution.

You are wrong.We see Annan Plan that gives us most of the rights and the style we want so we are supporting peace that will come with Annan Plan.

Well, like i said before, it gives a lot to you, very little to us. So no deal

Yes thats true ! But this is true if there won't be a solution! If there will be a solution United Cyprus will enter to EU.Not RC!

Yes, thats true. But for a solution to be found you have to be more fair with us. Otherwise we really have no motives to support such a plan.

[PEACE]

You are working, owning property and everything in the Republic of Cyprus. Republic of Cyprus is the whole island, not just the "south". And the RC is the one that gives the rights also. So if you say "south", does this mean that you do not recognize the state that you expect the rights from?

Then u are accepting there is no occupation in north.Ok!RC can be the republic of whole island but is RC sovereign on whole Cyprus? No.When i'm saying "south" i meant this !

[Papas]

You are working, owning property and everything in the Republic of Cyprus. Republic of Cyprus is the whole island, not just the "south". And the RC is the one that gives the rights also. So if you say "south", does this mean that you do not recognize the state that you expect the rights from?

Then u are accepting there is no occupation in north.Ok!RC can be the republic of whole island but is RC sovereign on whole Cyprus? No.When i'm saying "south" i meant this !

There is occupation of course. Part of the Republic of Cyprus is occupied by the turkish army and that is why Republic of Cyprus can not control that part of the country.
And that is how we are entering in the EU. Republic of Cyprus enters the EU representing the whole island. Its not just the "south" that enters the EU, but the whole Cyprus. The only difference is that in the north the Turkish army prevents the Republic to exercise its control.

[CypRiot]

My friend Papas. Obviously any discussion with you is neither productive nor constructive. You are not arguing to learn but to prove that you are 'right', and only your facts are the true ones. You have to understand that your facts are only valid for yourself, you have to learn to respect others opinions and persue a discussion in an according direction. Like in the case of RC having no authority whatsoever on N. Cyprus. Remember 1963, legislations you attempted to pass, which resulted in the resignation of all TC's? Remember 1974, the coup? Officialy you have violated the 1960 agreements in these dates, thus contrubuting the Turkish intervention of 1974. Although it is internationally recognized today, and state that you represent all of Cyprus+TC, your RC does not represent me or any TC or has any kind of say on North. Under your assertiveness, it is impossible to create a constructive environment.

Another thing is that you only choose to answer the stuff you can. In my previous 2 posts I directed questions to you, but you choose to skip answering by diverting the subject into other areas.

One final note, you are wrong about the US presidential elections, please show me where you got that information.

I refuse to perpetuate this disputation (or any other with you) under such circumstances.

[Papas]

Maybe I should agree with you to be productive or constructive?

I am open to any other views, but the Cyprus problem is something I know quite good and you shouldn't expect me to take lessons from you

Mistakes have been done in the past by both sites. In most of the cases by a small minority that does not represent the whole of the Cyprus population. This is not an excuse for the crime that your side continues to commit today and for the last 30 years.

My facts are valid for myself and for the rest of the word with the exception of Turks. Your "state" is only recognized by Turkey and no other nation for a reason. Numerous UN resolutions call for the removal of the Turkish army from Cyprus, international courts find Turkey guilty for human rights vialations in Cyprus. I didn't see you respecting any of these. For you everybody else is wrong and only you are right!

Yes, the Republic of Cyprus doesn't have a say in north because of the continuing occupation.

I think I answered everything, except maybe some empty accusations based only on rumors. If I missed something else, please tell me and I have no problem to answer it. Also if you can, you can answer to what I said to my other posts (if you can't, thats ok)

One final note, you are wrong about the US presidential elections, please show me where you got that information.

OK, I am again wrong and you are right as always.
I took courses of politics at a US college, I lived there for several years and I was there during last presidential elections. I know what I am talking about.

http://usgovinfo.about.com/library/weekly/aa022000a.htm

It is obvious to me that you are the one who is trying to prove that you are right and you are not willing to learn since you insist on things you really have no clue about.

[CypRiot]

am open to any other views

Yes, I can clearly see this ...

but the Cyprus problem is something I know quite good and you shouldn't expect me to take lessons from you

I am quite good on my history too, but I never suggested you take lessons from me, where did you get that from? I just mentioned accept the facts, I will try to be more straight for you anymore.

In most of the cases by a small minority that does not represent the whole of the Cyprus population. This is not an excuse for the crime that your side continues to commit today and for the last 30 years.

Yeah ! Right ! This shows how much you know (or choose to admit/accept on) the Cyprus history... How about the years before 74? I never hear you talking about these... Funny ! EOKA-B, Akritas Plan, your all time favorite ENOSIS and MEGALO IDEA...
These were the reaons that ignited all of this anyway.. are you refusing who you are and were?

And, like we dont represent the whole island, you dont either

My facts are valid for myself and for the rest of the word with the exception of Turks

Again, this is because no one represents the actual TC's, back to where I started... Its all politics and if we had representation, it would have been different today...

Your "state" is only recognized by Turkey and no other nation for a reason. Numerous UN resolutions call for the removal of the Turkish army from Cyprus, international courts find Turkey guilty for human rights vialations in Cyprus. I didn't see you respecting any of these. For you everybody else is wrong and only you are right!

How did I not respect any of these? All these are true, but how did you come up with the result that only I am right? Sorry, but If I am wrong, I am wrong, I never stated what you are mentioning.

If I missed something else, please tell me and I have no problem to answer it

My previous posts are still there. Please go up and respond if you choose to.

http://usgovinfo.about.com/library/weekly/aa022000a.htm

Ok, I am wrong. I am a better man now

empty accusations based only on rumors

What are these empty accusations????


I have stated that I will not continue to this discussion, so I will stick with it. This is my last post in answering you. I will not be wasting my time on this anymore.

[Papas]

I am quite good on my history too, but I never suggested you take lessons from me, where did you get that from? I just mentioned accept the facts, I will try to be more straight for you anymore.

You have to understand that your facts are only valid for yourself

I repeat that my facts as you call them are the facts either you like it or not. And as I already said these facts are valid for the whole world except Turks, not just me.

Yeah ! Right ! This shows how much you know (or choose to admit/accept on) the Cyprus history... How about the years before 74? I never hear you talking about these... Funny ! EOKA-B, Akritas Plan, your all time favorite ENOSIS and MEGALO IDEA...
These were the reaons that ignited all of this anyway.. are you refusing who you are and were?

Enosis was the idea before the Republic of Cyprus was established. We where under the british at the time, and I remind you that we are the 80% of the population. In several of the 10 countries that are going to join the EU now their people voted if they wanted to join or not. Do you know how much was required for those countries to join the EU? 50% + 1 vote. In Cyprus we had 80% !!!! Anyways, I guess trying to explain what democracy means to a Turk is useless, I give up! (and then you want to be called Europeans )

EOKA-B was a terrorist organization that did some terrible things and all its members should have been in jail. They did not represent the majority of people, and they are yet another example of groups of people that think that they are right and above democracy and harm the whole population with their actions. But I should remind you that TNT was a Turkish Cypriot terrorist organization that also did very bad things. Whats worst, your regime now supports terrorist organizations like the Gray woolves.

And, like we dont represent the whole island, you dont either

Republic of Cyprus does. You can end the occupation and participate in elections if you want.

Again, this is because no one represents the actual TC's, back to where I started... Its all politics and if we had representation, it would have been different today...

I am very interested to know what you would do if you had real represantation.

I have stated that I will not continue to this discussion, so I will stick with it. This is my last post in answering you. I will not be wasting my time on this anymore.

I agree.
Discussions can be made when the two parties agree on some principles. For us these principles are the respect of human rights and democracy.

Unfortunately you are not willing to accept these things and you just remembered peace now because Cyprus is entering the EU and you want the benefits that the EU offers (mainly the financial ones).

I will again say:
Be fair! Yes, you are a monority and you have to accept this. We are all a minority in the family of the EU. So What? The matter is that yours and our rights will be respected and in your own federal state you can have your own education system, your own police etc and everything will be guranteened by the EU and the UN. We can both be happy and prosperus in our country and look for a better future.
I am sorry, but we will never vote for something that will not be functional and can create problems like in the past. We are doing ok, and with the EU we will do even better. We will not risk!
On the other hand, by asking for too much, you will get nothing and your existance there will be just to serve some Turkish military interests and nothing more.