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I find the reference of Greek Speaking Cyprus or Cypriots as

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I find the reference of Greek Speaking Cyprus or Cypriots as

Postby humanist » Sun Nov 12, 2006 12:03 am

I find the reference of Greek Speaking Cyprus or Cypriots as Greek Cypriots and/ or Greek Cyprus as demeaning and exclusionistic toward other Cypriots whose language may be different than Greek. We are different from Greeks as we are to Turks.

Thank you that is my little beef for the morning.
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Postby DT. » Thu Nov 16, 2006 3:39 pm

but we are greek cypriots...what do you want us to call ourselves?
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Postby Piratis » Thu Nov 16, 2006 4:24 pm

humanist probably means that Republic of Cyprus although is made up by a majority of Greek Cypriots, it a Cypriot Republic, since in Cyprus we have many other citizens that belong to other official and "unofficial" minorities. I fully agree with humanist.

References to "Greek Cyprus" are part of the Turkish propaganda that wants to divide Cyprus between Greek and Turkish parts. There is no "Greek Cyprus" and there is no "Turkish Cyprus". There is just one Cyprus, the Republic of Cyprus, part of which is illegally under occupation by a foreign country.

There is only one Cyprus and it is a Cypriot Cyprus, where all of us are Cypriots without this means that we should all be exactly the same. Each one of us can have its own ethnic background, and religion and there is nothing wrong with that.
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Postby lupusdiavoli » Thu Nov 16, 2006 4:51 pm

There are multiple "realities" from which each of you puts forward the one which is in favor of his or her ideas.

The legal reality, the reality on the ground, the one of geography alongside with idealistic views blended with mixed political ideas of every source.

So there is one Cyprus! This would be valid according to the legal reality. Nevertheless the reality on the ground provides the opposite.
So there are only Cypriots. Nevertheless some declare themselves as Turkish, some as Greeks, others something in between and a minority I suppose solely as Cypriots. What a mixed situation!

Ah, as always there is someone praying for the human race, the Humanist! Have in mind that someone may find "demeaning and exclusionistic toward other" references to any sort of identity. You should simply refer to humans...

I have no doubts you can easily spell all the human rights and the relevant literature. I will quote a word of greek origin if I am right, utopia!

Sorry I prefer the reality. My beef is raw.
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Postby Piratis » Thu Nov 16, 2006 5:15 pm

Sorry I prefer the reality.


And how exactly do you prefer "reality"?

If somebody was kicking you out of your house you would prefer this "reality" and sleep on the pavement from then on? There is a difference between being a realist and being a masochist, I hope you understand this.

The reality is that 1/3rd Cyprus is under illegal occupation, and that this illegality will never be accepted and those that commit these crimes will face consequences. Thats reality.
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Postby lupusdiavoli » Thu Nov 16, 2006 5:45 pm

Reality is not a matter of taste or preference. It is what it is.
As you ve said, "1/3rd Cyprus is under illegal occupation". This is the present situation on the ground. From there and on who or whether someone is going to face the invisible justice is under question. In any case is an issue of the future and not the real time. Certainly, it is something you prefer to occur but in any case is not real at all in the sence that it is not present.

In this instance, to connect with my previous comments, you put forward the legal arguments. You have to do so since they are in your side.

But you know already from the hard experience that what is legal or legitimate does not necessarily point to the factual status.

So you can hold as much as you like on the legal side of the story unless you can find the key to transform the legal to real. Hard it is, but the legal will not be much of a help in a problem or should I say a conflict which above all lies in the sphere of politics.

Also note this. What is today legal or legitimate may tomorrow change. So you have to ake under consideration the factor of time. Obviously is not in your favour. But the point here is that legal does not always reflect reality. And gradually the reality is the one who transforms things to legitimacy.

However, you can count on the possibility that time will turn the tide and the reality you wish shall meet the treaties etc.

I agree with you that there is a difference from being a realist and being a masochist. Masochism if I may play with the words is having a problem such as this and wondering like Humanist, whether the issue is one of the langauge!!!
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Postby Piratis » Fri Nov 17, 2006 1:36 am

We can all see how reality is today, and nobody said that solving the Cyprus problem could be done just by proving that our arguments are right.

However since we are not masochists, we should keep fighting for what is right and just. Although this will not have an immediate result since the balance of power does not favor as at the moment, it can have other results:

1) Those that commit these illegalities against us will have consequences.
2) We ensure that what is illegal today will continue to be illegal tomorrow. (imagine what would happen if we said "oh well, we just accept 'reality'. No need to ask for our rights anymore")

The above is the max we can do today, and thats what we should do. By doing that, we do what we can to reduce or limit the increase of their power, thus increasing the chances that at a certain point in the future the balance of power will be such that will allow for a fair and just solution to be found.

While legality is not enough when the balance of power is against us, in a situation were this balance will be more "balanced" having legality on our side could make all the difference.
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Postby lupusdiavoli » Fri Nov 17, 2006 9:05 am

Fine,

So it ends to be a game of power. How do you think your side can achieve power?

On the issue of the possible consequences do you have in mind any similar example where the one who lucks power managed to overcome its weakness? On the principles or based on legalities Turkey would not even be a candidate for the E.U just to give you an example where legitimacy, human rights etc. were not much of a help.

It is acceptable that you will keep holding on the treaties, international law etc. but whether these are effective lets say after 30 years is highly questionable.

Above all, I cannot see the essential factors which are about to change the present balance of power. And whether that happens at some point I'm sure that legitimacy is the last you would like to put forward. That is because the one who holds the power does not care about legitimacy. And this is something you should know from the experience of the last 3 decades...
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Postby zan » Fri Nov 17, 2006 10:12 am

2) We ensure that what is illegal today will continue to be illegal tomorrow. (imagine what would happen if we said "oh well, we just accept 'reality'. No need to ask for our rights anymore")


And this is meant to be a basis for your argument. :roll: Let us get rid of reality and live in Piratis world.
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Postby Debowing » Fri Nov 17, 2006 10:59 am

I second and agree fully with Piratis.
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