Cyprus-Forum.com

[brother]

From what i am reading and hearing the cyprus situation resolved or not will eventually have no bearing on Turkeys E.U aspirations, even though ROC has veto choice in its pocket.

Saying that i am not even totally convinced that Turkey will eventually want to join the E.U, it accepted conditions i would have thought impossible but the turks always have a plan b, so i say stop imagining that the E.U is the end all for turkey as it might prove to be a fatal mistake for all cypriots.

May i also add as much as i dislike tassos he was on the right track for demands and concessions from turkey, but why did he not follow through, we like to believe the story that it has 31 more chances for veto but turkey knows this, something else must of jerked him to backdown.
What i cannot say but i am not trying to invent a conspiracy theory here, the turks are not anybodies fool, as many people state turkey is always a couple of steps ahead what if that couple is more like 10 or 20 steps ahead.

All i am saying is lets all stop the bickering and really look for that solution before it is truely too late.

[insan]

The GC's will never accept a two state solution!

Does it not serve your interests and suit your hidden agenda?

[insan]

Time to setting forth the final opinions... no more waste of time... We have lots of work to do...


http://www.cyprusmedianet.com/EL/article/31033?

[pantelis]

Insan,

What do you think about my idea in the previous thread. Did you see it, or did you choose to ignore it?

Bananiot,
The only allies we need, in order to solve our problem, are the Cypriots; all Cypriots, GCs and TCs.
Papadopoulos should restructure his government to include TCs, as ministers and civil servants. He should open the Cyprus parliament to fill the empty seats, reserved for the TCs. All Cypriots should be included in the decision making. If any of these first steps are taken, the rest will follow. How can we continue the policies of 1963 and expect to see a change, both internally and externally?
An honest and sincere effort to share the political power of the RoC, even with little or no success in the beginning, will create the climate for reconciliation and unity.
This is what I mean when I say we should solve our problems by ourselves, by sitting on the same side of the table, not the opposite side.

[insan]

Insan,

What do you think about my idea in the previous thread. Did you see it, or did you choose to ignore it?


Quote:
Bananiot,
The only allies we need, in order to solve our problem, are the Cypriots; all Cypriots, GCs and TCs.
Papadopoulos should restructure his government to include TCs, as ministers and civil servants. He should open the Cyprus parliament to fill the empty seats, reserved for the TCs. All Cypriots should be included in the decision making. If any of these first steps are taken, the rest will follow. How can we continue the policies of 1963 and expect to see a change, both internally and externally?
An honest and sincere effort to share the political power of the RoC, even with little or no success in the beginning, will create the climate for reconciliation and unity.
This is what I mean when I say we should solve our problems by ourselves, by sitting on the same side of the table, not the opposite side.

I saw my friend, I saw... You know it better than me that it's just an instant day dream, comes and goes... but anyway here's what I think...

I say yes to your idea... Most probably several thousands of TCs and 10.000s of GCs would say yes to your idea and you well know that this doesn't solve the problem as a whole. Furthermore, Papadopulos and his friends don't have this or another idea in their mind which will bring two communities together in a peaceful coexistence. He and his friends are preparing, dreaming to land the last stroke in order to achieve their goal. Neither of the TC political parties trust to him; even Akinci, Durduran and Izzet Izcan...


Moreover, there are some world realities we should have acknowledged. Super Powers work on a new world conjuncture and we all know that "big boys" of Cyprus are the clients of that super powers...


Nevertheless, in a unified Cyprus with no restrictions on right to settlement and buy property will put TCs under the risk of losing big part of their small land to wealthy GCs, Greeks and Eoropeans. Strife amongst extreme groups and provocations of invisible self-interest powers(Hellenists, Turkists, Real Estate Mafia, etc) will be enough to oppress, frustrate most of the TCs to sell their properties and emigrate to other countries.

[-mikkie2-]

Nevertheless, in a unified Cyprus with no restrictions on right to settlement and buy property will put TCs under the risk of losing big part of their small land to wealthy GCs, Greeks and Eoropeans. Strife amongst extreme groups and provocations of invisible self-interest powers(Hellenists, Turkists, Real Estate Mafia, etc) will be enough to oppress, frustrate most of the TCs to sell their properties and emigrate to other countries.

So Insan, you want the TC's to be a protected group of people that cannot be touched by anybody? I think you belittle the TC's by your comments. Are you saying that TC's are not able to compete with the GC's, that they are somehow inferior to GC's that requires them to be specially protected? If we have a state of law where the rights of the individual are paramount then the Hellenists, Turkists, Real Estate Mafia would have nowhere to hide.

[insan]

So Insan, you want the TC's to be a protected group of people that cannot be touched by anybody?

I want TC community to be as secure as it could be... so don't exaggerate the issue as you always have done...

I think you belittle the TC's by your comments. Are you saying that TC's are not able to compete with the GC's, that they are somehow inferior to GC's that requires them to be specially protected?

Look mikkie, which TCs you refer of? There are TCs(Mostly self-seeker businessmen) who calculate how much their wealth will be multiplied in a unified Cyprus.. There are TCs who calculate how much their illegal wealth will be reduced in a unified Cyprus... There are TCs who consider a solution as an escape door to other EU countries... There are TCs that are not aware of what's going on around... And there are TCs who follow the goings-on well and evaluate the events from a dialectic view point with an unprejudiced analytic mind. It is a fact that, as a consequence of the events of last 50 years; TCs couldn't adequately have benefited of the staff of life of the modern world. Most of the TCs are economicaly poorer than most of the GCs. This will be the biggest handicap and weakness of TC community in unified Cyprus, there's no doubt. As a consequence of past 50 years difficulties, sufferings and pains; most of the TCs are in a state of "No fears, tears and pains anymore, I can't stand any kind of violance... I sell and go from here..."


In this morale, even some small, individual incidents will cause them to sell whatever they own and emigrate to other countries...

I'm a TC mikkie... I know my community at least better than you; so stop twisting what I say to make them fit your nonesense...

If we have a state of law where the rights of the individual are paramount then the Hellenists, Turkists, Real Estate Mafia would have nowhere to hide.

Theory and practice are totaly two different concepts... Until the justice has been prevailed, it would have been too late for majority of TCs...[/quote]

[pantelis]

Insan,
You said:

Nevertheless, in a unified Cyprus with no restrictions on right to settlement and buy property will put TCs under the risk of losing big part of their small land to wealthy GCs, Greeks and Eoropeans.

One of the EU concepts is the opening of all borders to all EU citizens. By you isolating the TCs in another enclave you are not protecting them, you are condemning them to remain under-developed, as they have been for the last 40+ years. It would make more sense for the ethnic-fanatic GCs to insist on isolating the TCs from them. The birth rates are much higher in the north than the south, I think. The Irsraelis know that if they have a unitary that includes the Palestinians, one day they will be a minority.
Any restrictions you impose on you right now, will haunt you in the future.

The Turks want no derogations from the EU. When the European capital begins to buy companies and interests in Turkey, how are they going to react. An open ended relation, means just that. One-way openings do exist in healthy relationships. It is inconceivable to me, to see Turkey a full member of the EU, not because of EU drawbacks, but of the Turkish elite reluctance to give up the reigns. This is the main reason why it will take Turkey ten or fifteen or fifty years, to fully join the EU. The TCs will not be given the opportunity to sidetrack from the Turkish path, unless they fight for it.

The question is: Are the TCs going to take the EU way, or the Turkish nationalistic way. Once this question is cleared, then we can figure out the next steps, for lasting solution.

[erolz]

One of the EU concepts is the opening of all borders to all EU citizens.

That is an EU 'ideal' - the practice is much more complicated. There are already (transitional) limits on some existing member countries and that's without the special circumstances of Cyprus. The EU accepted the annan plan as a fair and viable settlement. It is only GC who insist it is against EU norms. You accpet EU 'rulings' in your favour (deeming it was legal to accept RoC in without a settlement) and ignore or deny them when they are not in your favour

The birth rates are much higher in the north than the south, I think.

Except of course when you want to argue about how many settlers there are in the north, in which case the birth rate is the same !

The Turks want no derogations from the EU.

Turkey's problem was not on restrcitions of free movements of Turks post accession. These have been applied in the past and such restrictions are in force on some countries today. Turkey's problem was in being treated differently to other apllicant countries. The difference in Turkeys case is the wording refers to the possibility of _permanent_ ristrcitions of this type (which no other country has hadin it's accession programm). Even so it _accepted_ this wording that left such unique and permanent restrcitions as a possibility.

The question is: Are the TCs going to take the EU way, or the Turkish nationalistic way. Once this question is cleared, then we can figure out the next steps, for lasting solution.

The EU way ? You mean reunifaction under the Annan plan - a plan that the EU supported ? Or do you mean the GC EU way - whereby all GC maximal demands are met and we just accpet them? I think I'll take the Turkish EU way thanks - if you are offering choices. Anyway the EU makes little sense actually for a small country that produces very little like Cyprus. The biggest 'advantage' of being in the EU for a country is that it gives free access to a large market. Great if you make cars or fridges or televisons. If you make nothing then this 'gain' is worth very little. You also lose any ability to protect any manufacturing you might want to encourage in your country, and loose much sovreignty in many issues. For Turkey it makes sense joining the EU. For a small country like Cyprus it makes much less sense - unless of course you have a single monomania political objective and you think being in the EU will help you impose this on TC.

[boulio]

has anyone in cyprus every done a case study or gallop poll to see what the people actually want?Im a greek-american living in the states and work with GC'S and many of them have expressed to me that a viable solution would actually be full partion between the communities especially from the youger generation,im sure turkey would jump at the chance with large concesions of land to the ROC IN return for diplomatic recogniton of the "trnc".