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European Solution vs Turkish Solution

Propose and discuss specific solutions to aspects of the Cyprus Problem

Postby brother » Fri Dec 24, 2004 3:58 pm

That is a valid point from both insan and mikkie but have you not found that coming from abroab to your home in cyprus you are treated differently by the locals.
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Postby MicAtCyp » Fri Dec 24, 2004 7:48 pm

Insan wrote: "No fears, tears and pains
anymore, I can't stand any kind of violance... I sell
and go from here..."
In this morale, even some small, individual incidents
will cause them to sell whatever they own and emigrate
to other countries...


I understand re gardas, and this really makes me feel sad. In my opinion what you said is true because it has to do with people who NOW hit the bottom. Please however think what will happen in case of a solution. In my opinion within 2 months the majority of the TCs will not be in the bottom anymore. Especially the public servants the teachers etc, will be 10 steps up in no time.

Insan wrote: If we have a state of law where the rights of the
individual are paramount then the Hellenists,
Turkists, Real Estate Mafia would have nowhere to
hide.


We have no Real Estate Mafia in the free areas!Yes we do have remote crooks but nothing like an organised mafia group. Mafia is an organised system that kills to protect it's interests. No, no we don't have such a thing.... But yes we do have three other very distinctive Mafias. a)Narcotics b) Prostitution c) Gambling

Insan wrote: if there has been restrictions
on right to settlement and buy property, TCs will always
feel comfortable themselves in the region they have been
living... If no restrictions has been put on right to
settlement and buy property; the first two places that
would be "invaded" by GCs, Greeks and foreigners in a
short time would be Kyrenia and Karpasia, and you should
well know why...


So we talk about restrictions of the rights of the GCs that will serve the TCs. How about restriction of the rights of the TCs to serve their own interests and limit their fears. Restriction No 1) No TC can sell his property!!! This would provide you 100% security in losing your properties..... How about that, would you like it?

*****************************

Erol wrote: Except of course when you want to argue about how many
settlers there are in the north, in which case the birth
rate is the same !


Hey, hey, that was my argument not Pantelis’. The birth rate among the GCs and the TCs is such that the population increase is NOT due to the birth rates of the indigenous GCs and TCs BUT to the import of settlers. I already gave you two links that confirm this. Please do have a look at the Laasco and Cuco reports.

Here are some small extracts from the Laasko report in the EU

26. Given the continuing reports of emigration of Turkish Cypriots and the fact
that the population in the occupied areas increases every year by more than the
birth and death rates justify, it seems relevant to assume that the number of Turkish
mainland settlers is much higher.


4. In particular, the Assembly expresses its concern at the continuous outflow
of the indigenous Turkish Cypriot population from the northern part. Their number
decreased from 118 000 in 1974 to an estimated 87 600 in 2001. In consequence,
the settlers outnumber the indigenous Turkish Cypriot population in the northern
part of the island.

6. The Assembly is convinced that the presence of the settlers constitutes a
process of hidden colonisation and an additional and important obstacle to a peaceful
negotiated solution of the Cyprus problem.
7. Therefore, the Assembly recommends that the Committee of Ministers:
i. instruct the European Population Committee (CAHP) to conduct a census of
the whole island’s population,
in co-operation with the authorities concerned, in
order to replace estimates with reliable data;
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Postby insan » Fri Dec 24, 2004 10:11 pm

So we talk about restrictions of the rights of the GCs that will serve the TCs. How about restriction of the rights of the TCs to serve their own interests and limit their fears. Restriction No 1) No TC can sell his property!!! This would provide you 100% security in losing your properties..... How about that, would you like it?





Please no twist re brother... you well know what I tried to argue there. How can you consider it that the restriction will serve the TCs. Do you mean that protecting the percentage of land which belong to TCs does not serve GCs interests? It should has obviously been understood that what I said is about protecting the percentage of land which belongs to TCs. Ain't it obvious to you that the first thing any TC under oppression will do is to sell everything he/she own and emigrate? Who will offer them the most atractive, best prices to buy their property? Poor TCs or wealthy GCs, Greeks and Europeans?

Of course restrictions on right to settlement and buy property won't be sufficient to keep those TCs who might have felt themselves oppressed in a unified Cyprus but at least it would be a delaying factor in front of them and in the meantime they could have changed their minds and keep struggling against the difficulties they faced with help of their Cypriot brothers.


We have no Real Estate Mafia in the free areas!Yes we do have remote crooks but nothing like an organised mafia group. Mafia is an organised system that kills to protect it's interests. No, no we don't have such a thing.... But yes we do have three other very distinctive Mafias. a)Narcotics b) Prostitution c) Gambling



Today you have no real estate Mafia tomorrow most probably you have had. The circumstances create them as you know. 20 years ago there was no Prostitution, Narcotics and gambling mafia but for a while there have been... When the circumstances have been changed with a unified Cyprus; North of Cyprus soon will become a very profiteer area for them. They know the weaknesses of TC community, ex-Kyrenians and Karpasians... They know the aspiration of the Hellenists... They know the geo-political importance of North coasts of the Island... And they bide the right time put their schemes into action...[/quote]
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Postby KELEBEK » Tue Jan 04, 2005 12:39 am

whats all this rubbish about a "european" solution? what does that entail?

free frog legs with garlic? unlimited frankfurters for everybody and as much Dutch grass as you can smoke?

Or is the it the new zappy term our G/C neighbours are using to mean "their" type of solution. Greek Cyprus may be a member of the EU, but it is not synonymous with European!
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Postby brother » Tue Jan 04, 2005 1:53 pm

Its exactley what it means, being in the E.U they feel now they have the power to do what they want and get a result totally in favour of there idea of solution.
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Postby Alasya » Thu Jan 06, 2005 6:46 pm

I think it has more to do with how EU-Law, decision-making and the acquis communautaire can function alongside the future federal Cypriot state and where realistically power will lie.

The EU factor is of great importance, as 63% of the island is in the EU at the moment and the north may become a part of the EU as well in the future, but we need to look at how we can fit in a political solution within the current set-up of the EU and its institutions and law.
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Postby KELEBEK » Thu Jan 06, 2005 8:21 pm

Surely not all T/C want to join the EU. I dont.
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Postby Othellos » Thu Jan 06, 2005 9:14 pm

KELEBEK wrote:Surely not all T/C want to join the EU. I dont.


Definitely not those who live permanently in CA and hold an 80K / year job.

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Postby KELEBEK » Thu Jan 06, 2005 9:38 pm

do i sense resentment

There are many T?c residing in North Cyprus who are against it too! Dont forget D.Eroglu`s UBP is anti-EU and is the second largest party in the North.
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Postby turkcyp » Thu Jan 06, 2005 9:47 pm

I do not want to be a part of EU as well, and I have never understtod why GCs wanted to be a part of it. Apart from political reasons, there are very few economic benefits to small countries like Cyprus or Malta.

These kind of small countries thrives on tourism, and real estate investment. These small countries could do much much better if they are outside the EU and without the intensive EU regulations. Economic gain usually goes to ocuntries with huge agriculture sector.

I for one never supported TC community being a part of EU union. The only good thing about EU is its insistence of supremacy of law, which I belive can be achieved by ourselves if we are disciplined enough.
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