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POLITICAL EQUALITY FOR ALL

Propose and discuss specific solutions to aspects of the Cyprus Problem

Postby erolz » Thu Dec 30, 2004 2:34 am

Piratis wrote: Aren't those areas clearly defined? I have no problem with having equality of states in some defined areas like the US.


No they are no pre defined (as I undestand it). There is equality of states in the senate (2 senators per state as I understand it). Where is the pre defined list of subjects that the senate can discuss?

Piratis wrote:I am sorry, but what you demand is tailored to your needs only and not mine.


The difference between us Piratis is that I accept that there are many forms of democracy that are still democratic. I accept that your desire of one person one vote accross all of cyprus is one form of democracy, just as I accept that a federal system of one state one vote is also democratic. I do not claim my prefered solution of one state one vote is the ONLY democratic system and that yours is un democratic. That is the difference.

Piratis wrote:How can you say that I want something "tailored" when I am ready to accept just anything that exists in any of the other EU countries? If what any of the other EU countries have is acceptable to me, and none to you doesn't this shows who is the one who wants to impose something tailored just to his needs?


Here we go again. Yes it is possible that none of the exact systems in EU countries is suitable for Cyprus, because I want something totaly unacceptable. It is equally possible that none of the exact systems in EU countries is suitable because none of those countries have a history and past and present that matches the situation in Cyprus. Once again I am willing to accpet that either of these senarios is possible. You on the other hand can only accept that one is possible.
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Postby pantelis » Thu Dec 30, 2004 8:13 am

Erol,
As non-racist free-thinking individual, which of the rights below, are you willing to give up?

http://www.yale.edu/lawweb/avalon/rightsof.htm
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Re: POLITICAL EQUALITY FOR ALL

Postby Alexandros Lordos » Thu Jan 06, 2005 8:31 pm

insan wrote:Here's my political structure model for Federation of Cyprus:


1- Two legislative councils for each community, one at constituent state level and one at federal state level.

a- Supposing that only a several thousands TCs would prefer to live in GC constituent state; the legislative council of GC constituent state should be composed of vast majorly GCs.

b- Supposing that GCs living in TC constituent state cannot be exceeded 1/5 of the total population of TCs of TC constituent state; the legislative council of TC constituent state should be composed of equal number og GCs and TCs which are residents of TC constituent state and should be elected by their own communities or mixed vote.(Debateable)

c- The legislative council of federal state should be composed of equal number of GCs and TCs and either elected by their own communities or mixed vote.(Debateable)



2- Two house of representatives for each community, one at state level and one at federal state level.

The structure should be same as above mentioned.




3- Presidency and governership should be based on 1 term GC, one term TC and they should be elected by mixed vote of two communities.

a- The governer of GC constituent state will be a resident of GC constituent state and will be elected by the reisdents of GC constituent state.

b- The governor of TC constituent state should be a TC for one term and a GC for the next term. The governors of TC constituent state should be elected by mixed vote of the residents of TC constituent state.



4- In TC constituent state 1GC/5TCs balance should be kept with restrictions on buy property and right to settlement, until 2/3 of TCs has lifted the restrictions with a referandum which will be made after a certain time period.



The voting method in legislative assemblies and house of representatives either can be based on seperate majority votes or mixed majority votes.


What's your opinions about this political structure...


Insan, I am a bit confused ... you are offering a GC governor of the TC state? Why?

And how exactly do you intend the Federal Legislature? There will be two houses, one from GC state and one from TC state?
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Postby insan » Thu Jan 06, 2005 8:58 pm

Insan, I am a bit confused ... you are offering a GC governor of the TC state? Why?



What I put forward for dsicussion is an absolute political equality model of political structure which well suits a divided society like Cypriots. I supposed that 1/4 of TC constituent state will be comprise of GCs as in federal state 1/4 of United Cyprus will comprise of TCs. If you noticed I also offered periodic presidency, for 1 term GC and 1 term TC. When the a GC has been elected(By mixed vote of citizens of TC constituent state) for governorship of TC constituent state; in the mean time a TC will be elected(By mixed vote of citizens of TC constituent state) for the presidency of Federal State. The governor of GC constituent state will always be a GC. Ain't it fair and well balanced? I strongly believe that such political structure would assure the viability and stability of both constituent states and federal state.

And how exactly do you intend the Federal Legislature? There will be two houses, one from GC state and one from TC state?



Like in US.



FEDERAL LEVEL

Federal Senate(Legislature):

Compose of equal number of GCs and TCs.




Federal House of representatives:

Compose of equal number of GCs and TCs.








CONSTITUENT STATE LEVEL



Senate of GC constituent State:

Compose of pure GC constituent state citizens(No rule for the TCs who would prefer to live in GC constituent state but can run for the elections and become a senator of the senate of GC constituent State.)




House of Representatives of GC constituent State:

Compose of pure GC constituent state citizens(No rule for the TCs who would prefer to live in GC constituent state but can run for the elections and become a representative of the House of GC constituent State.)




Senate of TC constituent State:

Compose of equal number of GCs and TCs.




House of Representatives of TC constituent State:

Compose of equal number of GCs and TCs.
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Postby Alexandros Lordos » Fri Jan 07, 2005 8:19 pm

Insan,

OK, I am beginning to understand now ...

You are proposing a GC state purely Greek, a TC state shared between GCs and TCs , and a Federal state shared between GCs and TCs ... with the proviso that the president of the Federal State and the Governor of the TC state will be of different ethnic origin. In this way you guarantee that one out of the three top officials of the state will always be TC, and you also allow for a welcome "blurring of distinctions" between GC rule and TC rule ...

I think it is a clever idea, it has many merits to it, it would help GCs feel at home in the north after a solution (because they would have the rotating governor) and it would help TCs feel at home all over Cyprus (because they would have the rotating president) ...

The only real problem I see with your suggestion, is that it is so radical and novel that it would be rejected by the people and the politicians out of sheer conservativism ...

If you decide to write a letter to the UN and propose your ideas, and you need supporting signatures, perhaps I would be willing to sign also ... :wink:
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Postby boulio » Fri Jan 07, 2005 8:26 pm

i kind of like that idea also,not bad. :wink:
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Postby insan » Fri Jan 07, 2005 8:36 pm

The only real problem I see with your suggestion, is that it is so radical and novel that it would be rejected by the people and the politicians out of sheer conservativism ...


Unfortunately :( but I'm sure it would worth to try this as the last chance.

If you decide to write a letter to the UN and propose your ideas, and you need supporting signatures, perhaps I would be willing to sign also ...


Thanks for your support. I've already e-mailed it to UN, Bush, Gul, Tassos, Talat, Christofias, Anastatsiades, Durduran, Izcan, Levent, all local newspapers of Cyprus, some major newspapers of Turkey, Greece and UK but unfortunately I couldn't find the e-mail address of Karamanlis...



i kind of like that idea also,not bad.


Thanks bulio :) What's your suggestions to make it better?
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Postby insan » Fri Jan 07, 2005 9:57 pm

So what do TCs think about such a political structure for a united Cyprus? Brother? Kelebek? Alasya? Zeybek? Turkcyp and all others? Give me a hand to make it better and true :)
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Postby brother » Fri Jan 07, 2005 10:08 pm

insan you said:

b- The governor of TC constituent state should be a TC for one term and a GC for the next term. The governors of TC constituent state should be elected by mixed vote of the residents of TC constituent state.

Why? would that not take away the tc right of self determination half the time.
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Postby insan » Fri Jan 07, 2005 10:36 pm

Why? would that not take away the tc right of self determination half the time.


No brother... He will be elected by mixed vote of TC and GC citizens of TC constituent state. Furthermore governor's authority will be defined in Cyprus constitution. The governor is a part of executive body. The power of legislation belongs to Senate and House of Representatives which will compose of equal number of GC and TC citizens of TC constituents state... Moreover at the time a GC has been the gowernor of TC constituent state, a TC would have been the President of united RoC. Nevertheless, the central state will be above the constituent states but the legislative and judicial bodies will be based upon absolute political equality of two communities. I hope I could have explained. Otherwise feel free to ask...
Last edited by insan on Fri Jan 07, 2005 10:40 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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