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its getting annoying that all discussion about the future lead to eoka. i ve got some question for gc and for tcs. whatever happened we cannot change. viewing it from today what would you change?

some questions that just come to mind for tcs:
how did the tcs feel about the british rule before the eoka period. conquerors ? protectors?
how do you feel about AKel stance not to participate?
were all eoka members anti-tcs or some did really fought for their freedom?
despite the fact that the general view is that TMT was a responce to EOKA would you support its actions and goals?
if eoka didnt happen how did the tc view the future of cyprus at the time?
if the gc are in a position today to accept that the enosis target of eoka was wrong , could you forgive ?
what would you change if you could? no eoka at all? or a pan-cypriot anticolonialist organisation?

for gcs
was the second target of eoka - that is :enosis, viewed from today, wrong?
how do you view akels stance? should it participate as well (despite that grivas didnt want them)? should it have created another anti-colonilialist organisation?
do you think the idea of excluding akel and the tc was a wise one?
do you think grivas choise as a leader (considering his past - keeling communist greeks) was a right choise?
do you think that eoka (deliberately or not ) harmed the bicommunal relationships?
what do you think would have happened if eoka didnt exist at all?
would you say we owe an apology to the tc communite for some actions of eoka?
what could have been done better in eoka?

(hope we can stay calm on this one)

I agree, the bickering over EOKA/EOKA B/TMT and the like is counter-productive,but I will try and give you my take on your questions:

was the second target of eoka - that is :enosis, viewed from today, wrong?
how do you view akels stance? should it participate as well (despite that grivas didnt want them)? should it have created another anti-colonilialist organisation?

With hindsight I believe Enosis was wrong. It would not have been the right thing for Cyprus at the time. It took a few years for many GCs to realise this. AKEL provided, through the trade unions, some links with the TC community. It might have created an anti-colonial organisation but what good would that do. Brtitain was not about to give Cyprus independence any time soon. With hindsight, perhaps if AKEL had developed into an peaceful anti-colonialist organisation that included the TC community things would have been different. But let's be realistic, Enosis and Taksim went back further than the 50s.

do you think the idea of excluding akel and the tc was a wise one?
do you think grivas choise as a leader (considering his past - keeling communist greeks) was a right choise?

You ask these questions as if these issues were decided unanimously within the GC community. Grivas had experience in this sort of thing, in terms of orchestrating a guerilla war, he was probably the best man for the job, but it wasn't as if the GC 'leaders' gave him an interview and said, right, you're the man for a job. I don't think he was the right choice with regards independence simply because the British were very stubborn, they were not going to let go of Cyprus as easily as all that. He was certainly not the right choice because his aim of Enosis alienated the TC community and Britain's subsequent policies helped incite hatred between the two communities. But I have already said that it is we hindsight that we can appreciate all of this.

do you think that eoka (deliberately or not ) harmed the bicommunal relationships?
what do you think would have happened if eoka didnt exist at all?
would you say we owe an apology to the tc communite for some actions of eoka?
what could have been done better in eoka?

EOKA did harm bicommunal relations, no doubt about it.
If EOKA did not exist, something else would have happened instead.
Again, with hindsight, it is reasonable to suppose that Cyprus would have got its independence at some point. The question is when? I believe this would have happened at the earliest in the 1970s when Britain joined Europe, it certainly could not have been foreseen.
Loads of things could have been done better by EOKA, but that's with the benefit of hindsight. With hindsight both communities would have acted differently.
Both communities owe apologies to each other for the inter-communal conflict. If anything EOKA owes it's biggest apology to it's own community. If there is anything that makes EOKA a terrorist group it is it's killing of GC civilians. With some notable exceptions (such as the killing of a British Officer's wife), EOKA's targets were all 'combatants', either British military or security forces. There is no doubt that some members of EOKA then went on to commit attrocities against the TC community. However, imo the majority of the GC community which suported EOKA at this time did so because they had had enough of the British and wanted some form of self-determination, in this case Enosis.
Enosis and Taksim by themselves were simply calls for self-determination. The problem was that in Cyprus at that time they were politically the worst case scenarios for the 'other' community. An independent Cyprus did not work because the people on either side did not want it to work. I believe both governments and the people are much more mature now than they were in the 1950s. I believe a unified Cyprus could work.

I am assuming you are talking for the original EOKA of 55-59 and not EOKA B.

My answers are about the original EOKA.

was the second target of eoka - that is :enosis, viewed from today, wrong?

Today we don't need and we do not want Enosis. At that time though Cyprus did not exist as an independent state. It was a Mediterranean island with an 82% of Greek population. Based on this liberation was naturally associated with union with Greece like it was the case with many other islands.

how do you view akels stance? should it participate as well (despite that grivas didnt want them)? should it have created another anti-colonialist organization?

It should have supported the cause without supporting the leadership of EOKA.

do you think the idea of excluding akel and the tc was a wise one?

Everybody that wanted to participate should have been allowed. Of course I understand that in such cases they can not always be politically correct and allow people in that they were not sure about their motives.

do you think grivas choise as a leader (considering his past - keeling communist greeks) was a right choise?

As Alexios said we didn't choose him. Cyprus would have been better off without people like him.

do you think that eoka (deliberately or not ) harmed the bicommunal relationships?

Some people within EOKA had committed crimes that were irrelevant with the liberation cause. They killed both TCs and GCs (I think more GCs than TCs). The problem was that the British used our struggle for liberation to turn the TCs against us. This is what harmed the bicommunal relationship mostly.

what do you think would have happened if eoka didnt exist at all?

Whatever we say it will just be speculation.

would you say we owe an apology to the tc community for some actions of eoka?

WE own an apology for the crimes that were committed that had nothing to do with the liberation cause. Of course we don't own any apologies for revolting against the colonialists and for fighting against the British and the ones that helped them.

what could have been done better in eoka?

They should have chosen a better leader and they should have understood the divide and rule games of the colonialists better. They should have been concentrated to the liberation cause and people that wanted to use EOKA for other causes (e.g. "cleaning" Cyprus from communism) should have been kicked off the organization.

I am assuming you are talking for the original EOKA of 55-59 and not EOKA B.

Just to clarify, I too was talking about the EOKA of 55-59.

Piratis wrote: Based on this liberation was naturally associated with union with Greece like it was the case with many other islands.

EOKA was fighting for liberation?

1. What freedoms did you lack under the Brittish in the first place?
2. How would you become freer by joining Greece, one of the worst and most oppressive dictatorships in Europe at the time?

EOKA is no more a liberation movement than the turkish intervention is a peace operation.

I think you are missing the point bg_turk.
The original EOKA was fighting an anti-colonialist battle for freedom and self-determination.That they used terrorist tactics,and killed anyone who stood in their way be it GC,TC,British,or whatever is a historical fact.
The mistake EOKA made was not to get the TCs on side.But I suspect that was already to late.Because after the 1923 Lozan Agreement Turkish Cypriots began to flirt with nationalism,and no doubt encouraged by the British, had already began to dream of Taksim.
Alex is right when he says dreams of Enosis and Taksim goes further back then the 50s.By the time EOKA was active the stage was set for the two communities to clush eventually.No TC would have gone near EOKA even with a barge pole.What happened in Cyprus was a clear case of divide and rule policy of imperialism at work. That we allowed that to happen is not to our credit as Cypriots.That some of us are still blind to this is beyond explanation.

EOKA was fighting for liberation?

1. What freedoms did you lack under the Brittish in the first place?
2. How would you become freer by joining Greece, one of the worst and most oppressive dictatorships in Europe at the time?

EOKA is no more a liberation movement than the turkish intervention is a peace operation

1. The freedom of democracy.

2. the CIA backed Greek Junta did not come into power in Greece until the mid 60's.

at a thread were u can find gcs accepting the mistakes of eoka , bg_turk u come along woth such questions seeking for radical answers.
what do you mean what kind of freedom did we lack? what kind of a question is that? didnt colonialism exist according to your information? or was it the kind of rule where people did not lack any freedom?

just name the elected representative of the cyprus community during the english rule...

i mean.. come on.. sometimes you ask for it .
its one thing to disagree with eoka or some eoka practises, but to say the british rule took no freedom from the cyprus people is.... i dont know what to think anymore...do you really believe that? or u just want disagree for the fun of it?

It's funny...because half the world fought to rid themselves of British or other Colonial rule like EOKA did. That means half the people of the world must be as evil as GC in the eyes of BG Turk and Zan.

An organization which has caused the death of more GCs than the entire British rule cannot be called a liberation organization. It is clearly a radical fanatical organization which in the name of its political ideology is ready to resort to terrorism even against its own people and uses terror to keep people under submission, cannot be termed nothing but simply a terrorist organization.