Cyprus-Forum.com

[mehmetg]

Hey I just want to break in and be straight to you as well.

Which rights are you saying Piratas? The right coming from your Megola Idea and Enosis or cleansing of Turkish Society by akritas plan. OR rewarding the architects of masacre through 1963-1974 by naming year 2005 the EOKA year and giving honour medals to 25.000 former EOKA members. There are 2 states over the island in reality. Its bicommunual bizonal and bifederal.
The formation of this structures reason is clear: The coup d'eta in 1963. If the copu did not happen at all than there would be no need for the current situation or the humatarian intervention of Turkey or the Annan plan. But after giving losses from both sides, after immigrating thousands from north to south and south to north, after loosing the right of represantation as politically and as human being. After giving up every concreate rights of a human under the arms of Greek-Cypriots. Than YES we demand equality, but we do not demand 50 percent of anything yours. We are here for our state. TRNC. It is a reality and it is a reason of an emberessment (massacre) that Greek-Cypriot society caused. So come and face with your cause. And leave no hope in you that it wont be your under any circumstances. TRNC stand still and gets even more powerfull each day. The direct flights from Azerbaycan is just a new start.
Watch the show and I hope you enjoy it:)

[faruk]

maybe you can think that it is useless but i have to metion that thereis only way to leave in peace is that two state, two equal and sovereign people. you may say that two people can leave together equally but the history showed no way for this. let me remember you the Greek-Cypriots and Greece killed a lot af Turkish Cypriots and also put them into gettos.so let me ask a question was that the EQUALITY? or is there another equality consept which is different from ours?

[Piratis]

Which rights are you saying Piratas? The right coming from your Megola Idea and Enosis or cleansing of Turkish Society by akritas plan. OR rewarding the architects of masacre through 1963-1974 by naming year 2005 the EOKA year and giving honour medals to 25.000 former EOKA members.

I never said that ethnic cleansing was our right and as a matter of fact we never did such thing to Turkish Cypriots. You are the ones who claim that ethnic cleansing is your right, since you ethnically cleansed 1/3rd of our island from the majority of the people that lived there for 3500 years and you do not want to give there land back. So? Is ethnic cleansing your right?

As far as EOKA goes, it was an organization formed to liberate our island from the colonialists. The fact that part of the population sided with the colonialists doesn't mean the fighters that fought for our liberation should not be honored. It is unfortunate that TCs connect all the EOKA fighters with some criminals that their actions had nothing to do with the EOKA cause.

The rights I am talking about can be found here:

http://www.un.org/Overview/rights.html

They are the Universal Declaration of Human Rights, that you insist not to respect.

The formation of this structures reason is clear: The coup d'eta in 1963. If the copu did not happen at all than there would be no need for the current situation or the humatarian intervention of Turkey or the Annan plan. But after giving losses from both sides, after immigrating thousands from north to south and south to north, after loosing the right of represantation as politically and as human being. After giving up every concreate rights of a human under the arms of Greek-Cypriots. Than YES we demand equality, but we do not demand 50 percent of anything yours. We are here for our state. TRNC. It is a reality and it is a reason of an emberessment (massacre) that Greek-Cypriot society caused.

Here we go again with that one decade. Apparently for you what happened before that decade (centuries of oppression by the Ottomans) is not relevant, and what happened after that decade, what happens now, and what will happen in the future is all excused by that one decade. I hope you understand how ridiculous this is.

The direct flights from Azerbaycan is just a new start.
Watch the show and I hope you enjoy it:)

Sure I will watch. Then it will be direct flights from Pakistan, and then along with Turkey (that will not join the EU) you can join the MU (Muslim Union) and be a "happy" third word unrecognized pseudo-state. Of course thats until the balance of power will change and then ... did you say that ethnic cleansing can be the basis of the solution of the Cyprus problem? I think this is what you support right?

maybe you can think that it is useless but i have to metion that thereis only way to leave in peace is that two state, two equal and sovereign people

We will take our land back, and it is up to you if this will happen peacefully or not. So far you choose war by having the 40.000 Turkish troops that are ready to shoot and kill any Greek Cypriot that tries to return to his own home.

you may say that two people can leave together equally but the history showed no way for this. let me remember you the Greek-Cypriots and Greece killed a lot af Turkish Cypriots and also put them into gettos.so let me ask a question was that the EQUALITY? or is there another equality consept which is different from ours?

And before that for centuries the Ottomans had Greek Cypriots as slaves. Ghettos seem like paradise compared to the treatment we had from you previously.
However now we should move ahead and to do that we need to fully apply the human rights and the democratic principles and leave our bad past behind.
Conflicts between communities existed in many countries. The solution was not to brake the countries apart, but to apply the human rights, democracy, and equality for all citizens irrespective of color,race,religion etc.
However it seems to me instead of using the past as something to learn from in order to move ahead (which in the long run will be better for both of us), you are using the past as an excuse in order to gain on the loss of Greek Cypriots.

[DO NOT FORGET 1974!]

MODERATOR: For being generally offensive and insulting to everyone, your post has been deleted. This is a forum for dialogue, not war.

Moderator! On the 20th of July, cross north with your TC brothers and sisters to watch the TURK making his victory parade. If you like you can participate with some Turkish flags. There you will see the Turk, dressed like his Attila ancestor with swords, knifes and spears and demonstrate how he slaughtered and conquered you, the GC Rayia, in 1974. After that you go the 5th mile in Kyrenia to see the TURK laying wreaths to the peace operation monument, which he apparently also called "The Attila" operation. This is the Turk you are negotiating with!

[erolz]

I never said that ethnic cleansing was our right and as a matter of fact we never did such thing to Turkish Cypriots.

If driving someone from their homes by force or the threat of force based on their ethnicity is ethinc cleansing then yes GC did ethnicaly cleanse the TC community from some ares of Cyprus. Personaly I find the use of such emotive terms unhelpful.

As far as EOKA goes, it was an organization formed to liberate our island from the colonialists. The fact that part of the population sided with the colonialists doesn't mean the fighters that fought for our liberation should not be honored. It is unfortunate that TCs connect all the EOKA fighters with some criminals that their actions had nothing to do with the EOKA cause.

The EOKA cause was enosis. To try and pretend otherwise is to ingore historical reality.

Here we go again with that one decade. Apparently for you what happened before that decade (centuries of oppression by the Ottomans) is not relevant, and what happened after that decade, what happens now, and what will happen in the future is all excused by that one decade. I hope you understand how ridiculous this is.

The one decade is directly related to what happend after. The two are inextricably linked. You can not undrstand what happened in 74 wihtout understanding what happen in the decade before. What happened in 1571 is not directly related to what happened in the one decade and to claim that it has the same relevance is ridiculous. Or will you claim that the way GC behaved in Cyprus in the one decade was nothing to do with GC desires to control and shape cyprus according to GC desires only with no regard for the fellow (t) cypriots, but was in fact a natural revenge for what the ottomans did 100's of years ago?

We will take our land back, and it is up to you if this will happen peacefully or not. So far you choose war by having the 40.000 Turkish troops that are ready to shoot and kill any Greek Cypriot that tries to return to his own home.

And when you take back your lands with force will you return the property of innocent TC who lost land in 63, or 74 and only take the land that belongs to you and no more, or will you take it all? Will you restore the 1960 consitituion when you gain the balance of power or (once again) use the balance of power to impose your will on TC regardless of that consitution?

Conflicts between communities existed in many countries. The solution was not to brake the countries apart, but to apply the human rights, democracy, and equality for all citizens irrespective of color,race,religion etc.

India into India and Pakistan. Pakistan into Pakistan and bangladesh. Former Yugosolavia. There are many examples where seperation ahs been the basis for achieving peace.

However it seems to me instead of using the past as something to learn from in order to move ahead (which in the long run will be better for both of us), you are using the past as an excuse in order to gain on the loss of Greek Cypriots.

The past should have shown that by trying to force TC into a status of minority, against the RoC consitituion and against their human right to self determiantion only lead to death and disaster, yet still you insist that TC have no right, legal or moral, to an effective poltical say in their own homeland. So what have you learnt from the past?

[Alexandros Lordos]

MODERATOR: For being generally offensive and insulting to everyone, your post has been deleted. This is a forum for dialogue, not war.

Moderator! On the 20th of July, cross south with your TC brothers and sisters to watch the TURK making his victory parade. If you like you can participate with some Turkish flags. There you will see the Turk, dressed like his Attila ancestor with swords, knifes and spears and demonstrate how he slaughtered and conquered you, the GC Rayia, in 1974. After that you go the 5th mile in Kyrenia to see the TURK laying wreaths to the peace operation monument, which he apparently also called "The Attila" operation. This is the Turk you are negotiating with!

DO NOT FORGET, what we are all trying to do here, through dialogue, is reverse what happened in 1974 - and also what happened in other sad years of our history before 1974.

As for the celebrations of the Turkish Army on 20th July, I see them with as much scorn as you do. I can't imagine why you would think any of us here would want to participate.

If you truly consider yourself a Greek, recall your heritage. Did your ancestors know nothing but war? Were they not the inventors of dialogue? Consider, what exactly are you being loyal to by promoting war and nothing else but war?

[DO NOT FORGET 1974!]

If you truly consider yourself a Greek, recall your heritage. Did your ancestors know nothing but war? Were they not the inventors of dialogue? Consider, what exactly are you being loyal to by promoting war and nothing else but war?

My heritage? The Turk doesn't care about my heritage! The Turk is destroying and desegregating my heritage every day, since 1974. The Turk doesn't know what dialogue means! This is an unknown word in his vocabulary. The Turk wants to pocket in 10 times more, for everything he pockets out to you! This is his tactic, this is his history!

[Alexandros Lordos]

The Turk

I think the problem is that you over-generalise. If I used on you the expression "The Greek" would that mean anything to you? Probably not, you would say "which Greek, there are all sorts of Greeks, there are brave Greeks, traitor Greeks, money-centred Greeks" etc. etc.

Why shouldn't the same thing apply for the Turks? I know some Turks who are very reasonable and very honest. Then again, I know other Turks who are exactly as you describe them. Which of them is "the real Turk"?

[city]

......

Conflicts between communities existed in many countries. The solution was not to brake the countries apart, but to apply the human rights, democracy, and equality for all citizens irrespective of color,race,religion etc.

India into India and Pakistan. Pakistan into Pakistan and bangladesh. Former Yugosolavia. There are many examples where seperation ahs been the basis for achieving peace.

erm, I'm really sorry erolz, but I think you picked the wrong examples here.
Even though there might not be war between those countries anymore, there is still very high tension and numerous incidents.

[Piratis]

If driving someone from their homes by force or the threat of force based on their ethnicity is ethinc cleansing then yes GC did ethnicaly cleanse the TC community from some ares of Cyprus. Personaly I find the use of such emotive terms unhelpful.

That was during the intercomunal conflict. Sure the GCs had part of the blame, but TCs had also blame since most of them didn't move because of fear but because it was their plan for partition (like they did in 74). Also we never claimed that any part of your land was ours and I hope the solution will allow you to get the 100% of the land you own. Can you say the same to us, or you believe that ethnic cleansing was your right?

The EOKA cause was enosis. To try and pretend otherwise is to ingore historical reality.

Who pretended otherwise. I said the EOKA cause was liberation from the colonialists, just like the revolution in Greece was liberation from the Ottomans.

The one decade is directly related to what happend after. The two are inextricably linked. You can not undrstand what happened in 74 wihtout understanding what happen in the decade before. What happened in 1571 is not directly related to what happened in the one decade and to claim that it has the same relevance is ridiculous.

So you claim the Ottoman rule of Cyprus is irrelevant to the problem we have today? Let me ask you this: If the Ottomans never ruled Cyprus, would we have the Cyprus problem today?
Sorry, but the Ottoman rule was VERY relevant.

And when you take back your lands with force will you return the property of innocent TC who lost land in 63, or 74 and only take the land that belongs to you and no more, or will you take it all? Will you restore the 1960 consitituion when you gain the balance of power or (once again) use the balance of power to impose your will on TC regardless of that consitution?

The innocent TCs had 30 years, and they will have some more to show that they are Innocent. The ones that do not support the violence and the ethnic cleansing against us will not only loose but actually gain a lot when Cyprus is reunited, even if this happens by force.

India into India and Pakistan. Pakistan into Pakistan and bangladesh. Former Yugosolavia. There are many examples where seperation ahs been the basis for achieving peace.

Yes, peace in the places you mentioned is an example for the whole world
And by the way, in non of those places the majority was ethnically cleansed by a foreign army to create a state for some others.

The past should have shown that by trying to force TC into a status of minority, against the RoC consitituion and against their human right to self determiantion only lead to death and disaster, yet still you insist that TC have no right, legal or moral, to an effective poltical say in their own homeland. So what have you learnt from the past?

Am I supposed to learn that a community of 18% is not a minority? It is like telling me that I should "learn" that the sky is red, otherwise you will start killing us again! It is you that you should learn that a community of 18% IS a minority.