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PostPosted: Sun Apr 06, 2008 2:50 am
by zan
Get Real! wrote:
Oracle wrote:
zan wrote:I have no desire for the isolation or bad feelings to continue RW :? I have no desire to throw caution to the wind either...I am an electrician and even by nature I do not gamble with life......I make sure. I have fantasies of wonderful things but reality is much more reassuring.

Zan ... the little white box says 15 in the house I am staying in at the moment. The Electricity board say I have to get an electrician to zoom me up to 40 ....

I hate trade and manual workers in my home ... how can I do it myself? :?

If you're talking about the amps (current) of your home's power supply then no you can't do it yourself unless you're into euthanasia.

But why do they suggest 40A? :? Have you got powerful 3-phase gear like a good air conditioning system? I manage fine with 30A.

You had to go and spoil it didn't you......I could have gotten rid of her for good :evil: :evil: :evil:

PostPosted: Sun Apr 06, 2008 7:19 am
by repulsewarrior
"When people vote, they should be neither Greek (GC ) nor Turk (TC) ...... but individuals ...... above all else, the right of the individual should be respected, no matter what community they finally affiliate with (for day to day existence).", OP

True!!!, in my Cyprus so long as you are a Citizen, toward the State you will be identified as an Individual, only.

Voting thricely, each citizens votes for a Turkish Cypriot representative, a Greek Cypriot representative, as well as an Independent representative.

"So you propose to have us TCs scattered all over the island in enclaves surrounded on all sides by GCs?", eric d.

not true, having enclaves scattered over the whole island implies that Greek Cypriots can return as communities in the north without destroying the fabric of the society which will surround them. Turkish Cypriots will have the opportunity to development land for their society's prosperity island wide as well with their enclaves in the south.

most importantly, I think is the recognition we can give to the displaced reciprocally by this change to our political-geography, and homes can be offered to the Settlers and those that will be displaced instead of houses.

"Will not the 'traitors' include a large section of the GC population?", deniz
"just EU members resident in Cyprus .... using their one vote to have a say!", OP

Both true, although our founding is a commitment to change, and people as Cypriots, and as Tc's and as Gc's are to be accommodated.

PostPosted: Mon Apr 07, 2008 10:43 pm
by Oracle
repulsewarrior wrote:True!!!, in my Cyprus so long as you are a Citizen, toward the State you will be identified as an Individual, only.

Voting thricely, each citizens votes for a Turkish Cypriot representative, a Greek Cypriot representative, as well as an Independent representative.

If we are to do away with segregating people according to previously outdated modes of thinking ..... why still partition representatives as TC, GC or Independent ... surely they are all one and the same? ... Human!

Not every TC is the same as another TC ..... so why can only a TC represent him? (same goes for GC and Independent)

PostPosted: Tue Apr 08, 2008 3:12 am
by repulsewarrior
I don't disagree with you OP, but to facilitate integration, beyond desegregation the balance requires the consideration of people as Individuals and as Persons without the bias which comes from overwhelming majorities. The distinctions act as a countervailing force against extremes. It is a cumbersome political system, compared to the purity and simplicity of your desire, except that the population of Cyprus will have to grow in to this one, while it defends all of us equally, its characteristic of sustaining a Greekness and a Turkishness will have no affect on the Government's credibility in terms of a Cypriot's representation.

Re: Manifesto: for your consideration

PostPosted: Sat May 03, 2008 5:21 pm
by repulsewarrior
repulsewarrior wrote:

Manifesto for a virgin birth based on the Principals of our Constitution (that of 1960) for a Governance which is Bicommunal, and a redress for all Displaced Persons.

A letter to:

Christofias Demetris, President of the Republic of Cyprus
Mehemet Ali Talat, Cumhurbaskani (KKTC)
To all the Citizens of the island of Cyprus

I offer my humble observations in the hope that they may be a guide toward a solution which is a demonstration of our Humanity, as Cypriots.

As a basis of negociation there is a long history of resolutions, and proposals toward the Problem and its Solution.

For close to half a century we have struggled to define the meaning of that basic principal in our Constitution which makes our identity bicommunal. Bizonal has been less clear to us, as to meaning, and although it is the most important issue, land, we are far from clearing this impasse.

In my Cyprus the meaning of these words are clear.
And I believe, their consideration was well chosen by Makarios and Denktash.

Bizonal means two parts; with each part made up of components.

Bicommunal means two levels of government; in our case three governing bodies.

Cyprus, the Republic of Cyprus, has had a dysfunctional government from its advent. For whatever reasons, enclaves became a part of our geography, allowing for distinctions to form where Turkish Cypriots and Greek Cypriots would grow apart. Now the displaced are measured in hundreds of thousands and the occupation by the Turkish Army remains, with the hope it will withdraw, when there exists reforms that Cypriots make for themselves as equal with a sense that their governance shall sustain them.

In my Cyprus the line which divides it in two would remain.

In my Cyprus some of the displaced shall return as communities, and all displaced shall have the Right of Return.

In my Cyprus in voting, in any election, people are defined by their residence, not by their ethnicity.

In my Cyprus a strong Central Government, with its Executive, and an Independent Judiciary will be Sovereign in defending our identities as individuals, our Individual Rights, and the Heritance which makes the island’s culture wealthy, beyond the interests of any single community of persons.

In my Cyprus there are two National Assemblies, where citizens represent themselves as persons, to have Jurisdiction over Territories defined, each as a Zone, providing to these electors the services they need in their daily lives in a manner where, they can as a majority sustain themselves first, while recognising their grace and providing for the special needs of minoroities amongst them.

In my Cyprus, enclaves, like jewels will be scattered across its map. Famagusta will be opened, Girne will remain, Komi Kebir will thrive, and a new township will be founded by Turkish Cypriots near Paphos.

In my Cyprus there is no need for the Military, even if there are many frontiers.

A Unitary State exists which which is in need of reform. The Principal of Bicommunality must be demonstrated as a useful political tool when people share a land and an identity between them. Cyprus is an island, afterall.

I imagine a Bicameral Legislature for the Government of our State. I imagine an Upper House, its seats divided equally between Turkish Cypriot and Greek Cypriot representatives. I imagine a Lower House whose seats are filled by representatives Independent of National Parties, proportionally elected, who through their speaker choose amongst them voting members for all the Government Committees where they have seats, debating Legislation, and voting by consensus

A Leader, to win the Presidency, through his Party must gain a majority of seats in the Upper House. Thus, his/her ethnicity is of no importance having to provide candidates to fill all the seats.

The voter shall vote thricely, once from each of three slates: an Independent, a Turkish Cypriot, and a Greek Cypriot representative.

Futuristically, over 200 years, we must consider having a population of 12 million. The mono clonal tendancies of today, when isolation is removed, and when our EU membership is beyond its advent, will no longer resist the changes of a world far more associated, and I hope at peace in the Middle East, and Africa. Bicommunality will allow us to choose as persons our identity, while as individuals equal we will seek to work toward our betterment as Human beings embracing the changes the future brings in our demographics as the most Socialised Country in the World..

Without our representation in National Assemblies we cannot provide to our culture another facet which enriches it, nor can its two counterparts be sustained any other way.

With a Unitary State we represent ourselves as this island’s dwellers, our expression as Human beings toward acts of betterment above any Nationality, as the Stewards for this Heritage, for the love of its trees, and of its relics, that are even older than the cultures in which we wish to sustain ourselves, (to Neolithic times). This history if you are Cypriot is interwoven in your own. It is a single line unbroken; we can remain great cooperators, yet for the first time in thousands of years, we can be free from subjugation.

Rise up citizen, if you disagree with my proposal, choose one that is better, and more Just.

Send it to our leaders, they need our help now.

My name is repulsewarrior, and as a citizen of the world you can find me on google.

Cyprus: three governments; One Capital, and Free.

are there corrections which can be made? will you sign this letter with me?
is there a Solution which is better or more Just?

...just to remind you that we have a Section in our Forum for Solutions, and I hope that you will afford me the patience to discuss this idea in Goodwill.

PostPosted: Sat May 03, 2008 7:57 pm
by Alexa
Seems you'll be like a kat and a dog for always
That is why UK military bases is still actual.

its a pity

PostPosted: Sat May 03, 2008 9:05 pm
by umit07
RW do you think TC's liked living in enclaves at the time it was because offear for their lives forces some 20,000 or so TC's to move away from their native lands.

PostPosted: Sat May 03, 2008 9:44 pm
by repulsewarrior
no umit, obviously it was a horror, and in the context of its time and place, (enclaves) they founded the Turkish Cypriot identity and gave it a place, this is history for whatever reasons, and for people who become enclovismeni everywhere, some good must come from it, so that a bicommunal identity is possible for them as well.

my point is that the land as a Heritance is too valuable to all Mankind to divide, simply, by tearing it in two, it is the sense of adding to the fabric, like convenient pockets on a suit which cover it, with them everywhere. It is the Justice of allowing people to return to what is by any Human decency theirs, even for some as Communities. To a Turkish Settler, I suppose it will be another bold new frontier with the same promise for enough peace, this time as a Citizen of Cyprus, to persue their happiness in homes, rather than houses.

PostPosted: Sat May 03, 2008 9:50 pm
by Oracle
The key to Humanity is culture ..... it being our only distinguishing feature as a Higher animal.

What would the citizens be offered by way of enlightenment?... and how can you use this as a tool to blend all people as of one dissent, yet allow individuality to shine through for the sake of evolution?

PostPosted: Sat May 03, 2008 9:54 pm
by repulsewarrior
Alexa wrote:Mmmmda!
Seems you'll be like a kat and a dog for always
That is why UK military bases is still actual.

its a pity

thank-you Alexa, and welcome to the forum.

I appreciate your comments
and i suppose from your comment that you support Universal Principals and the issue of being
"Greek" or "Turkish" is not too important
in comparison. reconsider, if you please so that your
answer is through me, as it is to me
if you would support an alternative
like mine. I hope
you will give me/us more
of your serious thoughts.

Cypriots seem few, and in that i agree with you
it seems it could be impossible
as the island dwellers
to put the island first