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PostPosted: Sat May 03, 2008 10:37 pm
by repulsewarrior
Oracle wrote:The key to Humanity is culture ..... it being our only distinguishing feature as a Higher animal.

What would the citizens be offered by way of enlightenment?... and how can you use this as a tool to blend all people as of one dissent, yet allow individuality to shine through for the sake of evolution?

Yes...this is the core: culture. In defence we strive in our daily lives to learn more about ourselves and our place in the society around us and its culture. Yet, beyond the isolation before the Modern Age the Individual was the Person. Today identities are far more complex because of our Communication skills, the velocity of Social-Exchange, and the demands of our Environment, which requires our inclusiveness at exponentially faster rates.

consider the situation of Palestinians at present who are effectively living in enclaves. forget the misery for a second and imagine, landwise not much change; but free movement association and expression three governments in Jerusalem with Arabs and Isrealis in a Bicommunal State much like what I am proposing for the consideration of the Cypriot people.
...and what is wrong with "enclaves" if in their pure geographic context they define "zonality" for people whose identitiy includes their Persons, as well as a self, defined by their Individual Rights as an equal.

particularly, National Assemblies oblige the majority ("Turkish" as well as "Greek") to provide the balance in their leadership which affords the demonstration of Good Faith, toward their own betterment with the recognition of those who are unlike them, but with their own special needs. The reciprocation of these efforts in the National Assemblies, I imagine will provide great margins of scale for them to refine a culture of their own, if their efforts of transparency provides to many other cultures a link to their own root by being Cypriot, especially if the State itself prospers by faciliting this exchange for us who are active in our Global 'mobility' as an inclusive People.

In any case, the State is free, from cultural bias, and in its Governance it is seen to have as a culture the counterbalncing of power, for all its citizens before any other interest.

Re: Manifesto: for your consideration

PostPosted: Tue May 06, 2008 1:11 am
Eric dayi wrote:
repulsewarrior wrote:

Manifesto for a virgin birth based on the Principals of our Constitution (that of 1960) for a Governance which is Bicommunal, and a redress for all Displaced Persons.

A letter to:

Christofias Demetris, President of the Republic of Cyprus
Mehemet Ali Talat, Cumhurbaskani (KKTC)
To all the Citizens of the island of Cyprus

I offer my humble observations in the hope that they may be a guide toward a solution which is a demonstration of our Humanity, as Cypriots.

As a basis of negociation there is a long history of resolutions, and proposals toward the Problem and its Solution.

For close to half a century we have struggled to define the meaning of that basic principal in our Constitution which makes our identity bicommunal. Bizonal has been less clear to us, as to meaning, and although it is the most important issue, land, we are far from clearing this impasse.

In my Cyprus the meaning of these words are clear.
And I believe, their consideration was well chosen by Makarios and Denktash.

Bizonal means two parts; with each part made up of components.

Bicommunal means two levels of government; in our case three governing bodies.

Cyprus, the Republic of Cyprus, has had a dysfunctional government from its advent. For whatever reasons, enclaves became a part of our geography, allowing for distinctions to form where Turkish Cypriots and Greek Cypriots would grow apart. Now the displaced are measured in hundreds of thousands and the occupation by the Turkish Army remains, with the hope it will withdraw, when there exists reforms that Cypriots make for themselves as equal with a sense that their governance shall sustain them.

In my Cyprus the line which divides it in two would remain.

In my Cyprus some of the displaced shall return as communities, and all displaced shall have the Right of Return.

In my Cyprus in voting, in any election, people are defined by their residence, not by their ethnicity.

In my Cyprus a strong Central Government, with its Executive, and an Independent Judiciary will be Sovereign in defending our identities as individuals, our Individual Rights, and the Heritance which makes the island’s culture wealthy, beyond the interests of any single community of persons.

In my Cyprus there are two National Assemblies, where citizens represent themselves as persons, to have Jurisdiction over Territories defined, each as a Zone, providing to these electors the services they need in their daily lives in a manner where, they can as a majority sustain themselves first, while recognising their grace and providing for the special needs of minoroities amongst them.

In my Cyprus, enclaves, like jewels will be scattered across its map. Famagusta will be opened, Girne will remain, Komi Kebir will thrive, and a new township will be founded by Turkish Cypriots near Paphos.

In my Cyprus there is no need for the Military, even if there are many frontiers.

A Unitary State exists which which is in need of reform. The Principal of Bicommunality must be demonstrated as a useful political tool when people share a land and an identity between them. Cyprus is an island, afterall.

I imagine a Bicameral Legislature for the Government of our State. I imagine an Upper House, its seats divided equally between Turkish Cypriot and Greek Cypriot representatives. I imagine a Lower House whose seats are filled by representatives Independent of National Parties, proportionally elected, who through their speaker choose amongst them voting members for all the Government Committees where they have seats, debating Legislation, and voting by consensus

A Leader, to win the Presidency, through his Party must gain a majority of seats in the Upper House. Thus, his/her ethnicity is of no importance having to provide candidates to fill all the seats.

The voter shall vote thricely, once from each of three slates: an Independent, a Turkish Cypriot, and a Greek Cypriot representative.

Futuristically, over 200 years, we must consider having a population of 12 million. The mono clonal tendancies of today, when isolation is removed, and when our EU membership is beyond its advent, will no longer resist the changes of a world far more associated, and I hope at peace in the Middle East, and Africa. Bicommunality will allow us to choose as persons our identity, while as individuals equal we will seek to work toward our betterment as Human beings embracing the changes the future brings in our demographics as the most Socialised Country in the World..

Without our representation in National Assemblies we cannot provide to our culture another facet which enriches it, nor can its two counterparts be sustained any other way.

With a Unitary State we represent ourselves as this island’s dwellers, our expression as Human beings toward acts of betterment above any Nationality, as the Stewards for this Heritage, for the love of its trees, and of its relics, that are even older than the cultures in which we wish to sustain ourselves, (to Neolithic times). This history if you are Cypriot is interwoven in your own. It is a single line unbroken; we can remain great cooperators, yet for the first time in thousands of years, we can be free from subjugation.

Rise up citizen, if you disagree with my proposal, choose one that is better, and more Just.

Send it to our leaders, they need our help now.

My name is repulsewarrior, and as a citizen of the world you can find me on google.

Cyprus: three governments; One Capital, and Free.

are there corrections which can be made? will you sign this letter with me?
is there a Solution which is better or more Just?

So you propose to have us TCs scattered all over the island in enclaves surrounded on all sides by GCs?

Your "proposal" is nothing but a personal wish to divide us TCs into smaller communities so that you can then pick us off easily and realise your dream of turning Cyprus into a Greek island.

And you want us to take you seriously and sign your "proposal"? :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:

I have seen some very stupid "proposals" from GCs RW but your one has got to be at the top of the "stupidest of the stupid proposals" list.

I am almost sure that you don't need me or anyone else telling you what you can do with your "proposal pal. :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:

Yes, yes because every human is fucked up like you and wishes to commit genocide like your stupid ass. :roll: :roll: :roll:

PostPosted: Tue May 06, 2008 6:02 am
by repulsewarrior
AC, i respect the fact that eric d. may cause your preoccupation, but allow me to ask you what you think of this proposal as an alternative to partition, if it came to a vote.

will you read the manifesto and read the thread so that I can have your reply as well.

PostPosted: Thu Jun 12, 2008 2:37 am
by repulsewarrior
The voter shall vote thricely, once from each of three slates: an Independent, a Turkish Cypriot, and a Greek Cypriot representative. two hundred years, the voters may have to vote five or six times, all voting for two Maronite chairs, perhaps one Armenian chair, etc., as their representative in the Upper House. Parties having their programmes on Universal Principals will field candidates who can communicate: this is bicommunal.

PostPosted: Mon Jun 16, 2008 11:16 pm
by repulsewarrior many enclaves would Cyprus need to secure a population three (and more) times the size?

With Basic Human Rights and the Rule of Law, is it not possible sometime in the long term for each National Assembly to create within their Jurisdictional Territory more distinctions to their society by adding to their geography a wider array of enclaves where self representation will support the population as persons.

A Unitary State with a Principal of Bicommunality is interesting to me, because as an Individual my Rights are defended, and as a People we are Sovereign in our representation. While as a Person I can sustain an identity with its National distinction in service to this State. ...(What about the Maronites, for example?)

enclaves secure that there will be no borders, only frontiers.

PostPosted: Tue Jun 17, 2008 7:26 am
by Oracle
You cannot create territorial "frontiers" ... They either exist or they don't.

Where are the frontiers in Cyprus?

Pushing against frontiers is the same as reaching a border. It will create tension unless breakthrough happens. Cypriots do not have a history of breaking down borders, invasion of others' space.

Do you mean the sea?

Cyprus is the death of ambition. Once you come here, there is no reason to go elsewhere. Once you come here you find contentment and enough answers that you don't need to ask "why" anymore ... perhaps only "how".

The only fly in the ointment is the presence of invasive Turks which spoil the natural order of things .....

We're back to square one.

The problem is how to get rid of the Turks.

A simple Democracy will then suffice.

People will be left free to find out "how" ....

PostPosted: Tue Jun 17, 2008 9:12 am
by miltiades
"""The problem is how to get rid of the Turks. """
Such a profound statement as the above by none other than a scientist !!!
Tell us how Oracle , and please dont go down the Mickey Mouse road of GR and General Paphitis along with flying pigs !!

PostPosted: Tue Jun 17, 2008 9:30 am
by halil
Dear friend Miltiades,

American sociologists Marvin Gerst and James H. Tenzel studied both ethnic communities in the early 1970s, after a decade of the postindependence struggle. They focused mainly on the psychological grounds of ethnic conflict. One survey instrument they used in their interviews with several hundred Cypriots measured perceptions of one's own and the opposing ethnic group; the results were then standardized in reference to a third group, American males. While both Cypriot groups varied considerably from the American statistical norms, the scores were similar for Greek and Turkish Cypriots for their own behavior and perceptions of the other community as acting according to a shared list of generally negative behavior traits.

The Turkish Cypriots scored as patient, obliging, stability seeking, thorough, self-effacing, dependent, mannerly, tactful, less self-aggrandizing, and more open to reasonable argument. Tenzel and Gerst described the Turkish Cypriots as hierarchical, patriarchal, and authoritarian--values of a society in which roles are clearly defined. Turkish Cypriots regarded public service as a more prestigious though ill-paying occupation than a successful business career. As Vamik Volkan also argued, these roles were instilled in childhood: Turkish Cypriot child care favored imitative, docile behavior and discouraged activity, curiosity, and talkativeness.

The psychological and behavioral differences between the two communities were perceived as extremely negative stereotypes by the other. Greek Cypriot assertiveness appeared as impolite aggressiveness to Turkish Cypriots, while the latter's attention to manners and procedures could be seen by the former as dullness and lack of ambition. In the context of interethnic conflict, each group denied the goodness of the other and pointed to examples illustrating these differing norms to "prove" the identical charges of aggression, brutality, and stubbornness.

PostPosted: Tue Jun 17, 2008 3:06 pm
by repulsewarrior
somewhere there is for example, a frontier between the rural and the city.

somewhere a mountain starts.

the word osmosis is valid with enclaves, places of a "Turkish flavour" or "Greek flavour" (or Armenian flavour) like a cake, they are constituents, without which the recipe cannot be cake, each made up of components, they blend, as parts within themselves and with each other.

The Jurisdictional responsibility for the provision of service to the electorate depends on identifying residency by drawing frontiers. Thus, the existence of frontiers is necessary in any circumstance, be it electoral ridings and/or districts. There is nothing wrong with being served, first, in Turkish or Greek, in one place or the other.What is important is that our State is strong, and that we are united as people in support of its Sovereignty in defending our Individual Rights. As Persons, in a Bicommunal framework, our liberty allows us to sustain (and promote) a National Identity as well.

The United Republic of Cyprus has as its frontier, its border. Internally however, we have to choose as yet a rational way of distributing the land so that it is served by the populace that lives on it in a manner where their closeness to it is expressed through their own self-representation. Enclaves make perfect sense then, in securing Free Association, and they guarantee our Free Movement, while allowing for distinctions in both societies from the diversity they will provide, it allows for Free Expression to grow. Most importantly, communities of the displaced will have the opportunity to return, Justice seen, beyond the Right of Return for Individuals which is paramount for us to demonstrate, if there is to be Justice.

Turkey, remains for us a counterbalance against the forces which are extremes. She will recognise the Sovereignty of Cyprus, as United and indivisable when it suits the needs she has for security, and the sustainability of her relations with us as an entity. When a "perfect" Solution is found, Turkey will not withold this recognition.

PostPosted: Tue Jun 17, 2008 4:07 pm
by Paphitis
miltiades wrote:"""The problem is how to get rid of the Turks. """
Such a profound statement as the above by none other than a scientist !!!
Tell us how Oracle , and please dont go down the Mickey Mouse road of GR and General Paphitis along with flying pigs !!

You would know all about flying pigs you WEAK man.

You remind me if the ultimate Greek and Cypriot politician, for when they learn the fine arts of foreign diplomacy and how to properly manoeuvre around the international scene with respect to the Cyprus Problem, we may actually have a chance instead of our WEAK pathetic demeanor which allows the Turks to take us for a ride. FFS, the legalities are on our side and we are the ones conceding.

There is one thing I despise and that is treason and pathetic introverts scared of there own shadow. Grow a spine.