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Viewpoint wrote:Alexandros with regards to settlers we have to be humane and not just get rid of these people, its not that easy those that have built a life here for more than 10 years, have a home and children and have integrated into a TC way of life should be allowed to stay. Offering incentives and options to settlers may help eleviate their concerns and encourage more to return back to Turkey. Please dont forget those migrant workers which are now due to Talats government gradually being brought under more controls are not part of our population, their numbers are now on the decline, because thay have to pay taxes and national insurance so the attractive wages (in relation to Turkey) are gradually diminishing. But on the hand due to our gradual economic recovery these workers are also necessary, so although I agree they should be brought under some control they should not be stopped altogether, but be treated as you treat you indians philipino workers.

Hmm, what if the alternative for settlers is, either stay in Cyprus but without any guaranteed property they can use for free (since it is unthinkable that GC properties will be given over to settlers as part of a settlement, and unpalatable that they should be given state land of the republic of Cyprus for free), or go to Turkey and be given a new house? Or how about granting full citizenship and voting rights only to those who were born here, while the older people will just have a residence permit?

You see, GCs are not just worried about the presence of settlers per se, as they are about the impact which their presence will have on power sharing arrangements and property rights. Perhaps there are ways to allow many of these people to stay while at the same time satisfying GC concerns as described above.

As to temporary workers, I agree that there should not be any ethnic/racial distinction and that workers from Turkey should have the same rights to come and work as philippinos or bulgarians or syrians or whatever. They should be able to stay for a fixed number of years only, after which time they will have to return to their country to be replaced by other workers.

Alexandros Lordos wrote:You see, GCs are not just worried about the presence of settlers per se, as they are about the impact which their presence will have on power sharing arrangements and property rights. Perhaps there are ways to allow many of these people to stay while at the same time satisfying GC concerns as described above.

Alexandros,
Why are you in the business of spoiling the game of that considerable lunatic and big-time asshole, so-called American congressman, who literary told us yesterday that Papadopoullos wants to get reed of as many settlers as possible, because he doesn't want to share power with them? Don't you know that the current American administrations vision of a solution is for the 670,000 GCs with 3,500 years of history in Cyprus, to make a federation and share power with a settler majority "TC" community, because it is the best formula for Turkey to have permanent political control all over Cyprus?

I will be surprised if you respond to this posting of mine!

Kifeas wrote

is for the 670,000 GCs with 3,500 years of history in Cyprus,

What a load of bollocks the GC and TC are so bastardised that there is no way you can claim yourself to be the same people, please stop spitting out bullshit and prepare to share or be partitioned and this is not the u.s doing but the shabby cyprus politicians.

Kifeas wrote:Alexandros,
Why are you in the business of spoiling the game of that considerable lunatic and big-time asshole, so-called American congressman, who literary told us yesterday that Papadopoullos wants to get reed of as many settlers as possible, because he doesn't want to share power with them? Don't you know that the current American administrations vision of a solution is for the 670,000 GCs with 3,500 years of history in Cyprus, to make a federation and share power with a settler majority "TC" community, because it is the best formula for Turkey to have permanent political control all over Cyprus?

I will be surprised if you respond to this posting of mine!

Why wouldn't I respond?

Basically, I think you re-confirm my conclusion that what most GCs dislike about the issue of settlers is that they will alter the political balance in Cyprus. After all, it is you who is the consciousness of GC public opinion.

I did some correlations yesterday, and it seems indeed that there is a particularly strong correlation between those who find the settlers provisions of the Annan Plan unacceptable, and those who find the power-sharing arrangements unacceptable. The relation is obvious.

I think that the proposal that was in my survey, granting citizenship to those born here and only permanent residence to their parents, was acceptable to GCs precisely because it solves the "politics" aspect of the settlers problem. If something was added to the deal guaranteeing that settlers will not be able to stay in GC properties, I am certain the GCs will accept it by a wide margin.

brother wrote:Kifeas wrote

is for the 670,000 GCs with 3,500 years of history in Cyprus,

What a load of bollocks the GC and TC are so bastardised that there is no way you can claim yourself to be the same people, please stop spitting out bullshit and prepare to share or be partitioned and this is not the u.s doing but the shabby cyprus politicians.

Brother, is that really you or did someone hack your password and write this using your name?

Whats up Alex, i am just pushing bounderies to see what response i will get.

I think there is a lot of wolves in sheep clothing on the forum and i want to expose them for what they really are.

brother wrote:Whats up Alex, i am just pushing bounderies to see what response i will get.

I think there is a lot of wolves in sheep clothing on the forum and i want to expose them for what they really are.

OK, I get it

You're doing a "MicAtCyp", if I may use this expression.

Seriously though, I think you are being a bit unfair on Kifeas. Understand his concerns and you will have understood the concerns of the Greek Cypriots.

I really do understand the GC worries but i also understand the tc worries which is why i do not belittle either side of the coin but some of our forum members do not try and understand, when it comes to kifeas at times he comes accross as intelligent and unbiased at others he seems like that wolf i was talking about in sheep clothing.
In short people should either try to learn and respect ALL cypriot concerns or accept that they are the product of propoganda conditioning and stop pretending to be what they are not.

Alexandros Lordos wrote:So, what do you think people? Do you see the compromises outlined in the survey findings to be a viable path to a settlement? I.e. would you accept European Security, full Property restitution except for land used by refugees and invested properties + right to a new home, settlers to stay only based on specific critria such as whether they were born in Cyprus or alternatively all settlers to leave, cross-voting for the federal senate, explicit legal continuity of the RoC but with the acknowledgement that the RoC is a bicommunal republic and also that the TCs formed a temporary administration out of necessity, implementation guarantees through the EU?

Alex,

I really appreciate your work and thanks for it.

But I couldnt really understand how did you come to the above paramters with this poll. All of this is classic GC parameters.

Do you have time to elaborate please?

1)full Property restitution except for land used by refugees and invested properties + right to new home.

2) explicit legal continuity of the RoC but with the acknowledgement that the RoC is a bicommunal republic and also that the TCs formed a temporary administration out of necessity.

Ok, for this one you asked a question. I sincerely doubt about this question. Did the subjects get it right? Did they get it like given that RoC is continuing after the agreement,...TC formed a temporary constitution?

The right to become a person to be citizen of other constitution ...
I see that 38,5 TC said "totally agree". It seems unlikely but maybe ...
To be honest I am sure that there would be more "totally disagree" for this question. aroud %30. Because as you said TC are more flexible in property issues but not much federal rights or...

Another issue is that TC would say yes to some of individual changes you listed for the sake of solution but having it as a whole package is a completely another thing.

Alexandros Lordos wrote:Hmm, what if the alternative for settlers is, either stay in Cyprus but without any guaranteed property they can use for free (since it is unthinkable that GC properties will be given over to settlers as part of a settlement, and unpalatable that they should be given state land of the republic of Cyprus for free), or go to Turkey and be given a new house? Or how about granting full citizenship and voting rights only to those who were born here, while the older people will just have a residence permit?

You see, GCs are not just worried about the presence of settlers per se, as they are about the impact which their presence will have on power sharing arrangements and property rights. Perhaps there are ways to allow many of these people to stay while at the same time satisfying GC concerns as described above.

Hi Alexandro,

Congradulations on this survey to you and to your TC partner (is it Faiz?). I think you are doing a great job of "myth busting" in public opinion. Yours are the only reliable surveys that I know of.

Regarding the settlers issue, I also think that the only acceptable and humane solution of the problem would be giving residency permits to those who will not be gaining citizenship. They will not be granted voting rights maybe with the exception of municipal elections. If a good number of them receive residency permits compared to the number that will become citizens, a delicate balance can be achieved that will both address GC concerns of political power balance and be acceptable by TCs.

Settlers would be inclined to accept this because, like the TCs, they are fed up with the uncertainty, they want to know weather they will go or stay. TCs would overwhelmingly accept such a solution. Extra labor will be needed in a unified Cyprus, even after the inclusion of the TCs to the work force, for many years after unification, considering the construction boom and other economic activity the unification will bring.

But I would like to clarify that the number of the settlers in Cyprus that has legal status in the north (by norths standards) is not as much as most people think. It's around 40 thousand. I know that the Turkish side could not provide a list of 45 thousand names to the UN, who were to stay in Cyprus according to the Annan Plan, because there weren't that many that had TRNC citizenships.

The number of Turkish citizens in Cyprus is definitely higher than this number but many of them are either illegal workers who have tourist status and students. The don't hold the TRNC citizenship and in case of a solution they will have no rights, no benefits. They will most probably be leaving even without a solution.

Overall, the settler problem is not an obstacle in the way of a settlement, because there are many options and some of them are acceptable by both sides. I think at the next round of negotiations, Cyprus problem will easily be reduced to a property problem. We will need a lot more creativity on this one.