Cyprus-Forum.com

[metecyp]

I'm sure Mete will also reply but i want to say something...

No, I'm not going to reply. I'll try to avoid him as much as I can. Talking to him is not different from talking to a wall, no attempt of communication, no attempt of understanding, no attempt of learning.

[Greek Cypriot]

My motherland is Cyprus and i don't care what Turkey's doing ! You can ask this to Turkey but not us!

Oh really? When you need them they are your motherland, now you don't know them? Very interesting approach.

You accepted than tried to take back what you accepted. Better one is not accepting if u don't like! You are not a honest person!

What????? Who are you that are going to tell me how honest I am?

n real NOT ! You are trying to seem you agreed but NOT ! Where do i understand? Cos you are rejecting the things that will support this system. You are trying to empty under it and want to take back all you accepted ! So never say "We accepted" etc etc etc.

We accepted Federation. It is a system that is functional and working in many countries of the world. What you are asking for exists nowhere in the world, and this is what we do not accept.

You want an unlimited order ! But you know Annan Plan's new order is impossible to live in that situation !If you want an unlimited new order than what are your concensions that you are going to give us reciprocal of you will gain?

What unlimited I demand? What are you talking about??

[Greek Cypriot]

No, I'm not going to reply. I'll try to avoid him as much as I can. Talking to him is not different from talking to a wall, no attempt of communication, no attempt of understanding, no attempt of learning.

-no attempt of communication
I am not the one who is avoiding others, am I?

-no attempt of understanding, no attempt of learning
And where is your attempt?

[metecyp]

-no attempt of communication
I am not the one who is avoiding others, am I?

I spent so much time trying to convince you but you were firm in your position and on top of that you starting calling people stupid. I have no option but avoid you in order to stop hurting each other.

-no attempt of understanding, no attempt of learning
And where is your attempt?

Read the posts that I sent in the past 3 days. Besides, my views are less firm than yours. Here's an example. Your idea of solution is no limitations and my idea is with limitations to protect minority. I stretched my position to accept that the transition period could be limited to 20 years. And I consistently said that my ultimate dream is also full implementation of human rights and democracy.
What did you say about protecting T/C rights or T/C sensitivity on security etc? Nothing.

[PEACE]

Oh really? When you need them they are your motherland, now you don't know them? Very interesting approach

I never said Turkey is my motherland but i said its a quarantor.Turkey helped you also! EOKA-B was killing some GCs too !

What????? Who are you that are going to tell me how honest I am?

Hey ! You are saying, in real you don't want to accept but can accept ! So what we can call this? If you don't like something why are you saying "I can accept"? If you accept than don't try to empty under what you accepted !

Do I like 1960 constitution? No, but I can accept it.

Huh... No comment !

.....................................................................................................

What unlimited I demand? What are you talking about??

Unlimited new order ! I want to mean a new order that not contains any limitation about residence etc.

If you want this i can say OK ! But offer me a thing that tcs won't be minority in Turkish Cypriot State and they can govern their internal affair works !

Offer me a style that it prevents tcs being a minority in TCS(Turkish Cypript State) when Gcs come and settle down without any limitations!

I ACCEPT LIFTING ALL OF THE LIMITATIONS NOW ! BUT OFFER ME A STYLE THAT WILL PREVENT US BEING A MINORITY IN TURKISH CYPRIOT STATE!A STYLE THAT ANNAN PLAN'S ORDER STYLE WILL BE PROTECTED!

[PEACE]

I hope this time you understand me my friend!
I don't remember that i said all that clear !


Come and settle down whatever you want !
Come and use your human rights without any limit !
Come and live in Turkish Cypriot State as in any another EU country!

I haven't got a problem with you and your human rights or residence or property use or democracy ! Come and i really want to live with you as close neighbours !


BUT

I want to govern myself in Turkish Cypriot State and i want quarantee for i won't have minority rights!

I want a Turkish Cypriot State and Greek Cypriot State which will be equal in everthing and will work together in foreign affairs!I want community's equality ! I want a solution that majority as population won't decide and govern everthing and can change the system and gives rights that what it wants!

Briefly,
I ONLY want to govern myself in Turkish Cypriot State and want to work as equal with Greek Cypriot State in foreign affairs!

I want that each constituent state to be sovereign and independent in their area's internal affairs!

I don't want a constituent state where other constituent state decides and governs me (Turkish Cypript State)! [ I know Annan Plan style and how federation is but meaning here different ]

I want to live in peace securly without afraiding from any danger!

I want a STABLE new order that will bring peace to all cypriots forewer.


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Now i'm sure everyone understood me ! Cos that's so so clear that everyone can understand! That's all i want to say! That's all i want !

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[Greek Cypriot]

I ACCEPT LIFTING ALL OF THE LIMITATIONS NOW ! BUT OFFER ME A STYLE THAT WILL PREVENT US BEING A MINORITY IN TURKISH CYPRIOT STATE!

OK. How about if while GC can become majority in TC state, most of them still vote only for central goverment and GC state. This way no matter how many come to that site, TC will still have majority rights in their own state and they can decide for their own state whatever they want as long as it respects the constitution and the laws of EU.
Fair enough?

Let me make this clear:
We do not want to control your internal afairs. The only limit for you will be constitution and the laws of EU, the same thing will be for us. We will not come to tell you how to run your own state internally. Is what you want to do allowed by the constitution? Is it allowed by the laws of EU? Then you can do it, and it is not our business. Clear?

Where I disagree is the part that for every decision of the central government, TC can have a veto. I accept veto in important things. For example nobody can change the constitution if not both sites agree. Or we can not enter NATO if both sides do not agree for that.

But let me tell you of one example where I do not accept a veto:
International afairs is the business of the central goverment.
So lets say we want to close a deal with Syria for natural gas that will benefit economically the whole Cyprus.
If Turkey has some problems with Syria, and such a deal will affect Turkey'e economical interests they might try to convince some TC to veto such decision.
If all TC were like you then I would be less worried because I know you wouldn't care about interests of Turkey and you would agree for what will benefit our country. But lets face it, not everybody is like you. For example you have 2 Denctash in your leadership right now, that for years they serve the Turkish interests and not yours. Also severl Turkish settlers will remain according to the plan.
I do not want our country to be a hostage of Turkey. But I am very afraid that if we agree for this veto thing, this is what is going to happen.

[metecyp]

We do not want to control your internal afairs. The only limit for you will be constitution and the laws of EU, the same thing will be for us. We will not come to tell you how to run your own state internally. Is what you want to do allowed by the constitution? Is it allowed by the laws of EU? Then you can do it, and it is not our business. Clear?

This is not the issue. The issue is how much power will Turkish Cypriots have in the federal goverment because that's where the major decisions will be taken. It's nice to be independent in the internal affairs of the Turkish state but that's not the real issue here.

Where I disagree is the part that for every decision of the central government, TC can have a veto. I accept veto in important things. For example nobody can change the constitution if not both sites agree. Or we can not enter NATO if both sides do not agree for that.

Although it might be hard to define where veto can be used and not used for every situation beforehand, I completely agree with your principal idea about veto.

[PEACE]

A veto power is also needed.If it is benefit for whole Cyprus why you think we'll veto it ! But i can see you are anxious about Turkey.Ok we can make a regulation for this subject like:
"Each Constituent State have a veto power in foreign affairs! BUT if one of the sides will say "No." it must show the realistic and objective reasons for its decision!(as detailed).This reason will be evaluated by a commission which will become from X number Gc and X number TC and Y number foreign person(expert in that subject).If this commission can't decide anything than court of United Cyprus for this subject will decide.If after all if "No decision is not logical it'll be supposed "YES"."


So what do you think?

[Guest]

This reason will be evaluated by a commission which will become from X number Gc and X number TC and Y number foreign person(expert in that subject).If this commission can't decide anything than court of United Cyprus for this subject will decide.If after all if "No decision is not logical it'll be supposed "YES"."

I think this whole process makes taking decisions overly complicated and too long.
It also puts the control of the decisions to foreigners since in both the commision and the court foreigners are included.

What I could agree for is that in the "very important" matters that TC can veto we could include matters that TC consider crucial. So for example TC could include in what is considered "important things that TC can veto" the "energy agreements". But all these matters have to be decided before we agree on a solution so both you and us will know how everything will work. If everything is clear there will not be any conflicts.