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by **brother** » Wed Apr 27, 2005 3:21 pm

Draw him as a gay with his own soilders :lol:

i really can't wait to see that one, will you be posting it soon. :lol:

by **unnamedman** » Wed Apr 27, 2005 3:25 pm

brother wrote:Draw him as a gay with his own soilders i really can't wait to see that one, will you be posting it soon.

I'm joking, it's my philosophy i can't take a person in situation like that. As i before say, it's not a freedom of speech!

by **metecyp** » Wed Apr 27, 2005 3:53 pm

unnamedman wrote:I'm joking, it's my philosophy i can't take a person in situation like that. As i before say, it's not a freedom of speech!

It's not freedom of speech because you think so? Who are you to decide what is freedom of speech and what's not? Maybe you don't express yourself by drawing a cartoon that portrays the president as a cat, but someone else does...and it's not supposed to be taken literally anyway. The artist did not mean that R.T.Erdogan is indeed a cat but rather he's in a mess like that cat in the picture. Man, you should see how much Bush puts up with in America...then cat picture will look so innocent.

by **unnamedman** » Wed Apr 27, 2005 4:42 pm

Of course it's not a thing that i can decide. As i say, it's my philosopy!

The place that to should decide, courts had already decided that to give compensation to the cartoonist.

Of course, cartoonist has a right for go to appeal or Europe Human Rights Courts like in every democratic country.

As i say, it's my opinion. İ don't find it true say that "it's a freedom of speech."

Freedom of Speech: Again in my opinion, right to people have an idea, and declare it to everyone with freedom unless that idea insults other people or their freedom.

by **metecyp** » Wed Apr 27, 2005 5:01 pm

unnamedman wrote:Freedom of Speech: Again in my opinion, right to people have an idea, and declare it to everyone with freedom unless that idea insults other people or their freedom.

We agree on the definition of the freedom of speech but I guess we don't agree the idea of insult. I don't think that there's anything insulting to Erdogan in that cartoon. He's portrayed as a cat in a mess and that's how his political situation was like at the time of the cartoon. Why is this insulting? I understand that the idea of insult changes from one person to another and what I find normal might be an insult to you but usually something is not considered an insult if it's obviously 100% insulting.

I think what happenned in this case is Erdogan used this insult excuse to supress the freedom of speech. It's very ironic that he was sent to jail a number of years ago for a religious poem and he complained a lot about that but now he's in power and he cannot tolerate anything against him...

by **garbitsch** » Wed Apr 27, 2005 5:05 pm

Just watch George Michael's Shoot the Dog video and see how Blair and his wife were portrayed. That's what I call an insult!!!

by **unnamedman** » Wed Apr 27, 2005 6:28 pm

recep tayyip erdoğan didn't show someone like an animal in his poem, or didn't say anything to any person.

yeah, like you say, it changes that what is insulting person to person. so recep tayyip erdoğan found that cartoon insulting.

i think so, this cartoon showed us his political situation but, he mustn't damage basic human rights.

by **metecyp** » Wed Apr 27, 2005 7:27 pm

unnamedman wrote:recep tayyip erdoğan didn't show someone like an animal in his poem, or didn't say anything to any person.

For your information, this is what he said in the poem.

The mosques are our barracks, the domes our helmets, the minarets our bayonets and the faithful our soldiers..

Now, imagine that you're a true supporter of secular Turkey...the poem he read definitely sounds like he's declaring a religious war against the secular Turkey, doesn't it? Or maybe not...maybe he meant he wants to use religion to start a war against illiteracy..he wants everyone to be more educated. This sounds good too, right?

What I'm getting at is this: An insult for you is not an insult for me...a declaration of war for me might sound like a nice little poem to you. We can't strip people off their freedom of speech because we think they are insulting or they're saying something we don't like. Unless it's 100% indisputable insult or attack, nobody has the right to silence anyone because they said something you don't agree.

It was wrong to put him in jail for what he said...but it's equally wrong for him to take an innocent cartoon so seriously and ask for punishment of the artist.

by **NickTheGreek** » Wed Apr 27, 2005 7:37 pm

Erdogan = Barbarian

http://www.times-publications.com/publi ... rdogan.jpg

Fuck him and Islam. Sick of Muslims and their stupid little 'shariah' law crap. It's amazing how many 'Liberals' will do anything to please these people, despite the fact the Quran is full of the most intolerant, anti left wing bullshit I have ever seen. All it is is "And so you should kill all the infidels blah blah blah".

by **magikthrill** » Wed Apr 27, 2005 8:05 pm

unnamedman wrote:then, i'll draw your prime minister as a gay .......................... by own soldiers!

Don't panic, it'll be cartoon.

LoL.

Go for it! While you're at it draw Bush as gay too by his own soldiers (Whatever that means).

I am looking forward to seeing what you draw cause unlike understand the difference between freedom of speech and facsist censhorship.

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