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Armenian “genocide” in The Washington Post

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Armenian “genocide” in The Washington Post

Postby brother » Tue Mar 08, 2005 4:51 pm

Armenian “genocide” in The Washington Post



Published: 3/8/2005


 
BY YILMAZ OZTUNA

TURKIYE- The Washington Post is one of the world’s best-known newspapers. It became particularly famous back in 1974, when it forced President Richard Nixon to resign. Nixon’s crime was that he had secretly taped conversations and denied knowledge of a matter which he actually knew full well about. Actually such things are considered common functions of the government in most countries.

Sunday’s Washington Post published a list of ‘mass murder of civilians in acts of genocide.’ Near the top of this list was the Holocaust. However, the article’s assertion that 1.5 million Armenians were killed during the Ottoman reign is a political lie. It’s an example of hostility against Turks, and it’s purposeful.

In 1915, the total number of Armenians living under Ottoman rule was 1 million. During that time, Armenians living in Istanbul and western Anatolia were barely touched. Those living in the east, southeast and central parts of Anatolia were exiled to other regions of the empire such as Lebanon, Syria and Iraq. During their departure, Kurdish tribes, who had suffered great losses because of them, constantly attacked the Armenians. The number of Turkish soldiers assigned to guard the Armenians on their way was inadequate. Therefore, they could not prevent Kurdish assaults on the Armenians. Some 10,000-15,000 Armenians died during those attacks. No more than that. However, the death toll reached 200,000 with losses due to epidemics and poor conditions. The rest of the Armenians settled in Arab lands. After World War I, they emigrated to France, America and the rest of the world. If all of them had been killed, there wouldn’t be any Armenians in these countries now.

Turkey has never had a governmental policy of ridding itself of any religion, sect, race or group. But our country treats people who challenge the state, assault its security forces and kill innocent citizens the same as any civilized country. True, 200,000 Armenians died during the exile. But the number of Turks, Circassians and especially Kurds that lost their lives was even greater. You don’t come across events in our history similar to what the US did to its Japanese citizens during World War II, how Eisenhower treated the surrendering German Army, or what France did in Algeria.

Looking over the last 90 years, the West has a great deal more slaughter, brutality and destruction to be ashamed of. If only we could prevent such tragedies from happening again…
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Postby Piratis » Wed Mar 09, 2005 1:04 am

Armenian Genocite never happened, the invasion in Cyprus never happened (just a peace operation), the Kurds were never oppressed, democracy in Turkey functions flawlessly and human rights are respected. And if they did something wrong so what? Everybody else does.
The question is: Do they really believe themselves the propaganda they produce?

Instead of recognizing that Turkey is one of the worst countries in terms of human rights violations, and that their history is again one of the most brutal ones (in the way they treated others), they are just giving cheap excuses.

If they want to change the image they have as a nation they should change themselves, not to try to change history.
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Armenian Genocide...

Postby garbitsch » Wed Mar 09, 2005 2:45 am

Piratis, just because 6-7 countries recognize this socalled genocide, does not make it real... Why did it take 90 years for France to realise that there had been an Armenian genocide?? Sweden suddenly changed its official position and does not recognise the "genocide" anymore. Why did this happen? IF there had been such a thing called "Armenian genocide" , why is it so hard for the countries to recongise it?
The murderings of Armenians during the World War 1 do not necessarily mean that the Ottoman government wanted to get rid of the whole Armenian race from the Earth! We all know that this Armenian genodice thing was first created by the British during the World War 1 in order to justify the creation of an Armenian state and invasion of the Eastern Anatolia by Russia. We also know that Armenian genocide is the only thing that keep Armenians as a nation.
The fact is that many Armenians were brutally slaughtered during the wars by Turks and Kurds, however this cannot be classified as a "genocide". If so, why were the Armenians in Istanbul not murdered? Besides, during the wars 2.5 million Ottomans had died in Eastern Anatolia (Ottoman Empire was under occupation of five nations). There is another fact that, in the USA if scholars do not support the Armenian genocide they face with threat and even are attacked by the Armenian groups. Former UCLA Professor Stanford Shaw's house was bombed by Armenians, because he didnt believe the socalled genocide had happened!!

"Instead of recognizing that Turkey is one of the worst countries in terms of human rights violations, and that their history is again one of the most brutal ones (in the way they treated others), they are just giving cheap excuses." You are telling this just because you are a Greek Cypriot... That is the only explanation. You do not have propagandas in South, do you? :roll: We have less brutal history than the whole Europe mate!
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Postby brother » Wed Mar 09, 2005 4:03 pm

If there was a armenian genocide then why do the armenians refuse to participate in any kind of fact finding mission to prove their claims?

If we today asked the jews to prove the holicaust ever happened they would respound straight away and leave no element of doubt in anyones mind of the truth.
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Postby turkcyp » Wed Mar 09, 2005 6:48 pm

Quite honestly I have not made a serious research about this issue before I become a member of this forum. Being a very skeptical person of any goverment history teachings, I have never disqualified the possibility of Armenian claims.

But my brief research in the libraries and on the internet shows me few evidence of Genocide. The only thing which is certain is that huge amount of Armenian people died during those times, but that number is way below 1 million mark. And the truth is there was no government policy to exterminate Armenian race, but thousands of Armenians, Turks and Kurds died during that time due to interethnic clashes (just like in Cyprus) and again thousands had died during Turk-Russian war.

What makes Armenian genocide so attractive to many in West is holocaust itself, so many Armenians being away from their ancestral land in west find the idea of genocide very bonding among themselves. It is like a character defying trait for them. And of course this is also helped by the Turkish government stupid insistence of denying Armenian suffering as well. This issue had become such a taboo in Turkey that people dare not speak about it. But recently there were more and more articles coming up from Turkey which acknowledges the sufferings of Armenian during those times which is very promising for future peace between these two societies.

What is funnier that the current Armenians in Turkey and Armenia are not very fond of the idea as well. But Turkey's and Armenian government relations have taken such a cycle that it is very hard to break. Stupidly Turkey places an embargo on them, which makes Armenian government more hardliner and they turn to the Armenian exiles for support which can impose their distorted truth on Armenian state as well. And this whole cycle is also been supported by the Turkish societies sensitivities on what happen in A

Especially in the west anybody that claims that such a genocide never took place is immediately crucified with western Armenians. They almost always are against any kind of scientific fact finding, but tries to push their version of truth through political means.

But anyway, if they believe that there was a genocide, then they should do everything in their power to prove it, and get Turkey to accept it. But knowing what I know today they simply do not have my sympathy because they are simply exploiting the suffering of thousands of Armenians, to achieve their political and economical gains. And who is suffering because of this stupidity are the Armenians in Armenia today, because all these claims are achieving is making Turkey more hostile to normalizing relations with today Armenia, and therefore keeping their economic well being very low.

Good luck to them,
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Postby Piratis » Wed Mar 09, 2005 6:53 pm

If we today asked the jews to prove the holicaust ever happened they would respound straight away and leave no element of doubt in anyones mind of the truth.


Well, if you asked Hitler he would tell you that the holocaust was a "health operation", just like Turks call their invasion in Cyprus a "peace operation".

The murderings of Armenians during the World War 1 do not necessarily mean that the Ottoman government wanted to get rid of the whole Armenian race from the Earth!


They wanted to get rid of them from Turkey, and you can not deny this.

We all know that this Armenian genodice thing was first created by the British during the World War 1 in order to justify the creation of an Armenian state and invasion of the Eastern Anatolia by Russia.


If it wasn't for the British Turkey would not exist today.
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Postby brother » Wed Mar 09, 2005 7:10 pm

You like to hit turkeys past, so lets hit greeces past, should we start with the mass genocide in troy or shall we talk about the true creator of barbarism your Alexander the great, who went around the globe killing everything in his path, the point is you are no better than the turks.

Quote:
The murderings of Armenians during the World War 1 do not necessarily mean that the Ottoman government wanted to get rid of the whole Armenian race from the Earth!

Piratis said:

They wanted to get rid of them from Turkey, and you can not deny this.

Like you wanted to get rid of TC from cyprus AND YOU CANNOT DENY THIS.


So the moral of the discussion is get over it and say something constructive not try and attack at every given opportunity as if we dive into your past you are no better or worse.
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Postby -mikkie2- » Wed Mar 09, 2005 8:14 pm

The reason why there is no clear cut evidence to support the genocide theory is because Turkey has not fully opened up the Ottoman archives for proper scrutiny by independent historians. Ataturks diaries have also not been released in the public domain.

The question is why?

I personally don't believe that this large number of Amenians, be it 1.3 million or 300000 ( I think the generally accepted figure is around 800000) died by random killings and disease.

If there is any proof of the effects of Turkish policy on minorities in Turkey it is the fate of the Greeks. When the Treaty of Lussanne (which Turkey does not recognise by the way) was signed, there were roughly 200000 Greeks living in Turkey and around 100000 Turks in Greece. Today there are around 2000 Greeks in Turkey and around 200000 Turks in Greece. The results of this cannot be easily explained away!
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Postby garbitsch » Thu Mar 10, 2005 4:14 pm

mikkie, Turkish archives are always open. Turkish Government and Armenians do not deny it. Besides, Turkey offered for a Conference to discuss this issue between the Historians from both sides by opening archives etc. But the Armenian side rejected to participate. You know why? Because, they well know that this Genocide didn't happen. The whole Armenian Republic and nation are bound to that hoax. If this genocide is proven void, then not good things will happen to Armenia!
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Postby Piratis » Thu Mar 10, 2005 6:35 pm

If this genocide is proven void, then not good things will happen to Armenia!


You are going to kill them again or what?
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