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YOU MUST KNOW THIS MAN - MUHAMMAD (PEACE BE UPON HIM)

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Postby FreeSpirit » Tue Feb 12, 2008 12:25 pm

QAMERSLAND wrote:Miss freeSpirit(southerner) has repeatedly said that Islam give death penalty to Rape Victim.

I had challenged her to find me where Islam( Quran and Hadith) says that Rape victim should be put to death?

infact if you read my last post. I have given the reference of an incident when some one raped a woman in the prophet PBUH time and he let the woman to go free and ordered death penalty to rapist. I have been saying from the beginning that
Do not judge the Car by Driver means do not judge Islam by Muslims
There are black sheep’s in every community.


Obviously English is your second language, I have never said that women rape victems are executed, I have said that they are punished for being raped. In the koran it says that a woman must have four male witnesses to prove rape and that a womans word alone is not valid. what a pig ingnorant insult to women!

I have also said that under muslim law in afghanistan women are executed for getting an education, that is fact!

You have yet to answer why if life is so precious have the muslim clerics sentenced a young muslim man in afghanistn to death for what he has downloaded on the internet.

It would seem that in most muslim countrys there is a blood lust within the muslim hierachy.
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Postby Get Real! » Tue Feb 12, 2008 12:30 pm

Tim Drayton wrote:GR, if you want to find a racist comment, let me direct your attention to this:

http://www.cyprus-forum.com/viewtopic.php?t=15876

"none of the people i speak to at college could imagine living with turks and would love to see u all die"

It sends a shiver down my spine just to read this. What is your reaction?

By his own admission Paliometoxo is a college student so that would make him 18..21-ish right? How old are you and I though?

The problem Tim is that the three of you are hammering Quammi as if he is the end all and be all of Islam when the poor guy is even struggling with his English let alone tackle the complex debate at had.

I have Islam scholar friends from Lebanon, Syria, and Egypt, such as Dr Samir El-Khoury that would run circles around the lot of you in perfect English so quit patting yourselves on the back at Quammi’s expense. That’s all... :)
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Postby BC Numismatics » Tue Feb 12, 2008 12:30 pm

FreeSpirit,you ARE wrong! Women & girls are no longer executed for getting an education in Afghanistan,as the Taliban were overthrown back in late 2001.The Koran insists on everyone,including women & girls,in getting educated.

Aidan.
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Postby FreeSpirit » Tue Feb 12, 2008 12:30 pm

Get Real! wrote:Yeah, well this is the sort of crap you get when the likes of Southerner, Miltiades, Tim, and a few other fools breed and nurture religious racism into the minds of the young and ignorant. :evil:


We had a similar situation in the UK during Thatchers term as prime minister, mentions support for the police complain about too many immigrants and the left PC brigade came out of the woodwork screaming Facist, racist, police state etc, it was their last resort answer when they had lost the argument.
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Postby Tim Drayton » Tue Feb 12, 2008 3:24 pm

Get Real! wrote:
Tim Drayton wrote:GR, if you want to find a racist comment, let me direct your attention to this:

http://www.cyprus-forum.com/viewtopic.php?t=15876

"none of the people i speak to at college could imagine living with turks and would love to see u all die"

It sends a shiver down my spine just to read this. What is your reaction?

By his own admission Paliometoxo is a college student so that would make him 18..21-ish right? How old are you and I though?

The problem Tim is that the three of you are hammering Quammi as if he is the end all and be all of Islam when the poor guy is even struggling with his English let alone tackle the complex debate at had.

I have Islam scholar friends from Lebanon, Syria, and Egypt, such as Dr Samir El-Khoury that would run circles around the lot of you in perfect English so quit patting yourselves on the back at Quammi’s expense. That’s all... :)


Well, excuse me.

Let's take a simple analogy. I am at home minding my own business. The doorbell rings. I answer the door and I am confronted by a salesmen. He is selling appliance X. Now, it just so happens that I was visiting my friend last week and he was using appliance X when it blew up and set his house on fire. Am I not entitled to ask this salesman to account for this incident?Can I not ask him to explain why this appliance burnt down my friend's house and to expect some kind of assurance that the same thing will not happen to me if I purchase this appliance? Am I to blindly buy the thing just because some guy is on my doorstep? If the salesman's English is not up to answwering me, does that make him the legitimate object of pity?

I am sorry, but this peddler of Sharia has turned up unannounced and uninvited on our doorstep. I have had previous experience of Sharia. I lived in the Gulf state of Qatar for two years. Whilst living there I accepted that this system represents the will of the citizens of that country, and the thought never occured to me to promote Western secularism or even to try and convert people to another faith. Believe me, if a Westerner living in Qatar entered a local Internet forum and started promoting Christianity the authorities would make it their business to track that person down and expel them from the country. I have heard of Westerners being deported from Saudi Arabia for merely mentioning Christianity. Sharia law, in my opinion, is based on the morality and way of life of bedouins living in the Arabian desert in the sixth century and can have no application in complex, modern societies. It may have been progressive when it was first promoted, but it now belongs in the dustbin of history. I met several Turks while living in the Gulf and have heard them express the view that one can only really understand the momentous achievements of Ataturk when you have first hand experience of what he saved Turkey from. I agree. Sharia law is based on institutional discrimination against non-Muslims and women, and permits the vilest of human rights abuses to take place. It incorporates institutions such as slavery which are unacceptable in the modern world. These are my opinions, but I have felt no compelling urge to stand on a soapbox and announce them to the world.

Here I am, peacefully minding my own business. This is the Cyprus forum, not the "eulogise Islam" forum. Somebody, out of the blue, no doubt genuinely believing Islam to be a creed of peace and brotherly love, comes along and insults my intelligence by starting a thread implying that the only reason I am not a Muslim is because I have never heard of the prophet Muhammad. As if there is not a single human being on the planet who does not know who the prophet Muhammad is! I did not even get involved at that stage, but when I started to see him defend Sharia and deny the fundamental abuses of human rights that Sharia law permits to take place, well I am sorry, but I have experience and knowledge of appliance X and if this peddler wants to sell me his appliance he had better account for it to me.

If his English is not good enough why did he chose to enter a forum where he could be expected to have to present his arguments to people with a high standard of English? There is a saying; "If you can't stand the heat, get out of the kitchen". Nobody is forcing him to remain here.

If you want to know my personal motive for engaging in this kind of discussion, it is not to try to pursuade Qamersland. It is because I believe that most Westerners are ignorant about Sharia law and the threat that it poses to the values that are cherished by Westerners if fundamentalists are able to start introducing it in Western countries. My entry into this thread predates the comments made by the Archbishop of Canterbury about Sharia law, and these comments show just how topical my arguments are. I had no wish to get on a soapbox and start harranguing the world with my views of Sharia, but when I heard about Rowan William's comments, I was farnkly very glad that Qamersland had provoked me into making my opinions public in this respect.

I am not patting myself on the back, and this is an open, public forum. Any champion of Sharia with the English to do so is welcome to come and address the points I have raised, all of which are supported by quates from the Quran and the hadith - how can that be showing disrespect? - or trusted news and human rights organisations.

May I conclude by saying that I condemn a couple of posts by Kuropetros in which he has shown us an image of a Quran in a toilet and a T-shirt bearing an anti-Islamic slogan. I would point out that I immediately expressed my cricism of the first such post. Let me relate an anecdote. I worked for a short time in the land which has the misfortune of being ruled by the disgusting tyrant named Qadaffi, Libya, and in my free time was visiting a nearby town in the company of another Briton and a Palestinian Muslim. There is a very ancient mosque in this town which is now in ruins and is no longer used for worship. We walked towards this mosque and were about to enter through the main door when I stopped to take off my shoes. My Palestinian colleague laughed and asked me what I was doing. I informed him that we were about to enter a mosque and as a sign of respect I was taking off my shoes. He then told me that this rule ony applied to a functioning mosque. Even so, I waited to see this Muslim enter without taking off his shoes before doing the same. My point is that you cannot accuse me of failing to respect religious values. I am an atheist but I accept that there are things which have special importance to religious people in a way that I cannot fully comprehend, but which I nevertheless respect. However, if a woman from South Asia comes to work as a housemaid in a Gulf country and is not serially raped throughout the course of her employment but is then herself subjected to a barbaric punishment if she through no fault of her own becomes pregnant and is thus deemed to be guilty of committing adultery while those who have raped her go unpunished - this is not the fate of most housemaids in the Gulf but it is not an infrequent occurence either - then this offends every sense of decency and natural jusatice that I have. If I express the sense of outrage that such abuses engender in me, this is not "religious racism" whatever that means.

Then the doorbell rings and I am confronted by a smiling Sharia law salesmen. My experience of Sharia law tells me that it stinks to high hell. I didn't ask this man to appear on my doorstep, but now that he has he can damn well listen to what I have got to say about the wares that he is peddling.
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Postby Tim Drayton » Tue Feb 12, 2008 3:26 pm

BC Numismatics wrote:FreeSpirit,you ARE wrong! Women & girls are no longer executed for getting an education in Afghanistan,as the Taliban were overthrown back in late 2001.The Koran insists on everyone,including women & girls,in getting educated.

Aidan.


Quote the chapter and verse, please.
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Postby tessintrnc » Tue Feb 12, 2008 3:53 pm

Tim, my friend is married to a Arabic Moslem and in their house the Koran is covered because he believes that it shouldn't be handled by a non-believer - and we respect that. I would be very upset if someone threw my bible into a toilet!!! I think you are a very wise man, thank you for your rational non-racist comments.
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Postby FreeSpirit » Tue Feb 12, 2008 4:02 pm

Get Real! wrote:I have Islam scholar friends from Lebanon, Syria, and Egypt, such as Dr Samir El-Khoury that would run circles around the lot of you in perfect English so quit patting yourselves on the back at Quammi’s expense. That’s all... :)

My gangs bigger than yours so there. Wow bully for you.
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Postby cyprusgrump » Tue Feb 12, 2008 4:06 pm

Great post Tim...
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Postby shahmaran » Tue Feb 12, 2008 4:11 pm

Get Real! wrote:
Tim Drayton wrote:
Get Real! wrote:
shahmaran wrote:Qamersland couldn't tell the meaning of real peace and freedom if it smacked him in the face, how can people who don't even understand the depth of such concepts believe that they can go around preaching it to others? Show me one example where Islam has brought peace and freedom!

Says a lad living in the "TRNC"... :lol:


It troubles me that so many Greek Cypriots do not understand the secular nature of Turkish Cypriot society.
It is surely an irony of history that, following the events of 1963-1974 that drove the two communities in Cyprus apart, the Greek Cypriot ruling elite has struck up cordial relations with all manner of brutal Arab dictators and fundamentalist Islamic regimes, while becoming estranged from their own fellow-Cypriot Muslims.
Sharia law which Qamersland is promoting was totally uprooted in Turkey by Mustafa Kemal Ataturk and replaced with a modern, secular democracy. Turkish Cypriots are staunch supporters of Ataturk's secular model and they have not the slightest interest in the fanatic, fundamentalist brand of Islam that Qamersland is promoting.
There is absoultely no contradiction in a Turkish Cypriot condemning Islamic fundamentalism.

Here was Shah going on about democracy, freedom, etc, when all along he is living in an illegal Muslim enclave run by Turkey! Can it get worse than that? :lol:

With regards to Turkey being "secular" it's nothing but a fallacy because religiously Turkey belongs to Islam with her citizens being Moslems so end of story. Take a walk anywhere in Turkey and you'll find hundreds if not thousands of minarets and mosques.

So, to wrap it all up if it walks and talks like a duck... it’s a duck! :idea:


Again you are full of shit GR! I was talking about freedom of THOUGHT as opposed to religious ignorance, can you even read right?

It is not my fault that my country is in such a state, i never created the problem, I'm simply unlucky to have been born into it and there is absolutely nothing i can do about it, last thing i want to do is move somewhere else and leave the arena to fuckers like you, this is my country and i love living here regardless of the political issues so fuck you!

You also know nothing about Turkey either, Turkey is probably more secular then the RoC or Greece, or even most EU countries, yes it is mainly Muslim but this does not mean that you can walk around and not find many Orthodox, Armenian, Christian Church, Sinagogs and even temples for Asians, we even have Christian Turks living here and lets not even mention some of the most rooted and ancient families living here being Jewish, so what the fuck are you talking about?
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