Cyprus-Forum.com

[Malapapa]

You are right about one thing though, Cyprus is part of the cradle of civilisation, as it was/is an important element of Greek civilisation.

Yes but isn't the Fertile Crescent containing Mesopotamia, the Levant and Egypt's Nile Valley most cited by Western and Middle Eastern scholars as the "cradle of civilisation"? According to the map, this area includes Cyprus, but not Greece.



http://www.britannica.com/EBchecked/top ... e-Crescent

[Simon]

You are right about one thing though, Cyprus is part of the cradle of civilisation, as it was/is an important element of Greek civilisation.

Yes but isn't the Fertile Crescent containing Mesopotamia, the Levant and Egypt's Nile Valley most cited by Western and Middle Eastern scholars as the "cradle of civilisation"? According to the map, this area includes Cyprus, but not Greece.



http://www.britannica.com/EBchecked/top ... e-Crescent

Malapapa, please consider the context of this debate. GR brought up civilisation vis-a-vis Greece/Cyprus. I was referring to the ancient Greek civilisation which is often considered the basis of modern western civilisation due to its influence in areas such as democracy and philosophy. This particular map is referring to the regions where the first civilisations emerged, (which, incidentally, was Mesopotamia and Egypt, not Cyprus) and this is an entirely different matter. (However, please also note that the Cycladic civilisation is also often mentioned as belonging to the cradle of civilisations, and so Greece cannot be completely excluded in any event).

[Me Ed]

Not sure if its true, but I was told this; can a GC read and understand the New Testament in its original Greek more successfully than a Greek from Greece?

[Malapapa]

There's no disputing that ancient Greek civilisation was inspired by those further east preceding it – in the Fertile Crescent, the real cradle of civilisation – an area which includes Cyprus.

[wyoming cowboy]

Not sure if its true, but I was told this; can a GC read and understand the New Testament in its original Greek more successfully than a Greek from Greece?

both can read it..in my opinion, but a cypriot without formal Greek education but only surrounded in the Greek cypriot dialect can understand it also...if that makes any sense...basically what im saying is that both the Greek and Greek cypriots know the words but an uneducated Greek only surrounded by modern Greek cannot...

[Simon]

If written Cypriot existed from at least 1500 BCE that we know of, imagine how much earlier in history spoken Cypriot was in use!

Greek did not appear until around 800BC as this timeline of ancient scripts demonstrates, so the notion that the Cypriot language comes from Greek is laughable!

It’s like telling your grandfather that he is your descendant!

http://www.ancientscripts.com/ws_timeline.html

GR you are clearly confused as your facts are all muddled once again. You must differentiate in your mind spoken language from the written language.

The Cypro-Minoan syllabary (1550-1050 BC) existed initially to write a language other than Greek, i.e. before the Greek language established itself on the island. Once the Greeks colonised Cyprus, the Cypriot script emerged in order to write Greek. You seem to be saying that the spoken Greek language emerged in Cyprus, simply because the Cypriot script existed before the Greek alphabet. Now that is laughable!

The Greeks DID NOT colonize Cyprus as there is not a credible shred of evidence to back that. In fact, it doesn’t even make any sense! Had a group of Greeks arrived on Cyprus they would’ve found a well established Cypriot society and culture, language and alphabet included, so they would’ve had no option but to FULLY ASSIMILATE with Cypriots or leave! The process wouldn’t have taken much longer than 2-3 generations.

The Greek language NEVER established itself on Cyprus! What the Greeks are using today is an evolved dialect of Cypriot. As for calling it “Greek” it’s just a label and NEVER forget that…

Cyprus is part of the cradle of civilization and Greece is NOT. Historically, Greece is just an infant when compared to Cyprus.

GR, you are obviously a wind-up merchant and not a serious poster. What about all the other places the Greeks colonised, is that all made up as well? You constantly bang on about evidence, but there is not a shred of evidence to back any of your claims. The world's museums, historians and archaeologists tell us one thing, and the mighty and noble GR tells us another from the depths of his glorious imagination! Unfortunately GR history cannot just be re-invented and made up as we go along to suit our tastes. You also consistently talk about Greeks and mythology, but with your imagination and story telling I would go as far as to say you are certainly a first class student of Homer (if such an individual did exist!). You are right about one thing though, Cyprus is part of the cradle of civilisation, as it was/is an important element of Greek civilisation.

Get your ancient history in order Simon!

If you read about the Cradle of Civilization you won’t find anything Greek there!

The Levant and Mesopotamia is where the ancient heavyweights of civilization existed from which EVERYTHING else (in Europe at least) including Greece flows!

In fact, there’s no mention of “Greece” in the Old Testament even but you’ll find plenty of references to Cyprus and Cypriots!

An island that was part of the Cradle of Civilization cannot be reinvented in the future as “Greek”, so stop making a fool of your self! Ancient Greece is just a baby that appeared much later in the history of man.



Had we had a time machine to travel back to Cyprus in 8,000BC this is what we would’ve found…



But, had we also stopped by what you call "Greece" today, this is what we would've found in caves....



Now quit pussyfooting around and bow down to the ancient Cypriots!

GR you have jumped onto a completely different issue and taken a single comment out of context, ignoring the rest of my post. You are now referring to the areas where the first civilisations emerged, which incidentally was Mesopotamia and Egypt, not Cyprus, simply because I have exposed the claptrap you were previously spouting.

I was referring to the ancient Greek civilisation (as this was the subject matter of our debate) which is widely regarded as the basis of modern western civilisation, i.e. Athens, cradle of democracy etc. I am well aware of where the first civilisations emerged! This is what a weak and immature debator does GR, jumps from one issue to the next and focusing on irrelevant side-comments because focusing on one issue for too long will inevitably lead to defeat!

P.S. You yourself should brush up on your ancient history, as you would soon discover that the Cycladic civilisation is also often mentioned within the cradle of civilisation!

[Simon]

There's no disputing that ancient Greek civilisation was inspired by those further east preceding it – in the Fertile Crescent, the real cradle of civilisation – an area which includes Cyprus.

Of course, all civilisations were influenced in some way by others preceding or co-existing with it. That is nothing unique. However, some civilisations made greater strides than others.

[Me Ed]

Not sure if its true, but I was told this; can a GC read and understand the New Testament in its original Greek more successfully than a Greek from Greece?

both can read it..in my opinion, but a cypriot without formal Greek education but only surrounded in the Greek cypriot dialect can understand it also...if that makes any sense...basically what im saying is that both the Greek and Greek cypriots know the words but an uneducated Greek only surrounded by modern Greek cannot...

That's very interesting as I've seen one of those Bibles where you have the original Greek along side modern Greek.

One can infer then that in general, Cyproits and islanders, can understand it better than mainland Greeks?

[Get Real!]

GR you have jumped onto a completely different issue and taken a single comment out of context, ignoring the rest of my post. You are now referring to the areas where the first civilisations emerged, which incidentally was Mesopotamia and Egypt, not Cyprus, simply because I have exposed the claptrap you were previously spouting.

I was referring to the ancient Greek civilisation (as this was the subject matter of our debate) which is widely regarded as the basis of modern western civilisation, i.e. Athens, cradle of democracy etc. I am well aware of where the first civilisations emerged! This is what a weak and immature debator does GR, jumps from one issue to the next and focusing on irrelevant side-comments because focusing on one issue for too long will inevitably lead to defeat!

P.S. You yourself should brush up on your ancient history, as you would soon discover that the Cycladic civilisation is also often mentioned within the cradle of civilisation!

What “Greek civilization” and green horses are you mumbling about Simon?

The Greeks were simply TAUGHT everything they knew from people that formed part of the CRADLE of civilization! Language, religion, society, EVERYTHING!

The Greek mythology theories you spout were invented in the 19th century! Ever since the 1821 win over their Ottoman adversaries, the Greeks lost it completely immersing themselves in the new Greek nationalism, which was comprised of 10% truths, 10% half truths, and 80% downright lies!

One of the greatest Greek lies to aid their thirst for expansionism was the alleged “Colonization of Cyprus” for which there is not a shred of evidence!

[Nikitas]

My interest in the language is semi professional, being am ajournalist and using language as a tool. Since coming to Greece I have witnessed an assaut on the language, most of it in the form of the work of one man, professor Babiniotis who is his grand wisdom has removed most doube consonants from the language. I will not bore you all with examples.

So modern Greek, or as I call it Babiniotika, is a language sterilised from its inherent musicality, which is something every language has. Language with no sound, as some linguists ike to study it, is nonsense. If you listen to non Athenians, whether from Rhodes, Cyprus, Crete, or the north, you will hear clearly pronounced double consonants. Athenian linguists ascribe this pronunciation to Turkish inflluence and at the everyday level ridicule it or treat it as a quaint provnciaism.

And in comes Griko, a language preserved for 3000 years, which never had any Turkish influence and lo and behold, it has double consonants. Not surprising for people who speak ELLinika, and regarded themselves as ELLines, both words having double Ls.

As for GRs theory that Cyprios somehow made it back to Greece where it took over all city states and replaced the language already spoken there, that sounds a little far fetched.