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THE ALEVI OF ANATOLIA

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Re: THE ALEVI OF ANATOLIA

Postby stpier » Mon Aug 19, 2013 11:52 am

stpier wrote:There is no such word as Alevi in English. Just go to google translate and search for Alewite and look for the Turkish translation. :D Dumb Rum.

Now back to my unanswered question: How many times have you been to Central Anatolia and how many Alewites have you met in person? Show us proof that they consider themselves as a separate ethnic group :!:


asking it for the 3rd time and no response..... How come these leftist Kemalist people are not Turkish?
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Re: THE ALEVI OF ANATOLIA

Postby kimon07 » Mon Aug 19, 2013 11:59 am

Tim Drayton wrote:Just to corroborate my above claim, the following quote comes from an interview with Ali Kenanoğlu, head of the Hubyar Sultan Alevi cultural society in Istanbul.

But Aykanat says while there are some religious and cultural differences between Syrian Alawites and their Turkish cousins, they share a common identity.

He says his people are Anatolian Alevis and those in Syria are Arab Alevis. But he says wherever you go in the world, if you use the word Alevi or Alawite, you are connected by a brotherhood.


http://sofiaecho.com/2012/03/16/1789263 ... a-conflict

On the other hand, to show that there are other views:

Are Syrian Alawites and Turkish Alevis the same?

http://globalpublicsquare.blogs.cnn.com ... -the-same/

I would disagree with the assertion that the term 'Alevi' is not used in English. One frequently encounters it in articles about Turkey. In fact, there is a Wikipedia article with 'Alevi' as its title: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alevi


I never said that. On the contrary, I was the first to link to wiki about both the Alevis and the Alawaites (see above) and wiki distinguishes between the two.

In any case, I would have no problem whatsoever to accept that their is a debate about this issue. But I don’t think is that important. What IS important I thinlk is that, according to the sources to which I linked above, the Alevis of Turkey have started developing the idea of a unique ethnic/cultural identity.
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Re: THE ALEVI OF ANATOLIA

Postby kimon07 » Mon Aug 19, 2013 12:10 pm

stpier wrote:
stpier wrote:There is no such word as Alevi in English. Just go to google translate and search for Alewite and look for the Turkish translation. :D Dumb Rum.

Now back to my unanswered question: How many times have you been to Central Anatolia and how many Alewites have you met in person? Show us proof that they consider themselves as a separate ethnic group :!:


asking it for the 3rd time and no response..... How come these leftist Kemalist people are not Turkish?


Simple. They support Kemalism hoping that islamism will not prevail in Turkey fearing, in such a case, the worst for their minority. Just read the turkish press to see how Erdogan speaks publicly about them and their worship places. Besides, if you are a minority in a country YOU HAVE to support one political trend or the other. Don't you? Even the remaining Greeks of Constantinople and the Armenians and the Kurds of Turkey vote for turkish political parties. Does that make them Turks?
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Re: THE ALEVI OF ANATOLIA

Postby stpier » Mon Aug 19, 2013 12:23 pm

kimon07 wrote:
stpier wrote:
stpier wrote:There is no such word as Alevi in English. Just go to google translate and search for Alewite and look for the Turkish translation. :D Dumb Rum.

Now back to my unanswered question: How many times have you been to Central Anatolia and how many Alewites have you met in person? Show us proof that they consider themselves as a separate ethnic group :!:


asking it for the 3rd time and no response..... How come these leftist Kemalist people are not Turkish?


Simple. They support Kemalism hoping that islamism will not prevail in Turkey fearing, in such a case, the worst for their minority. Just read the turkish press to see how Erdogan speaks publicly about them and their worship places. Besides, if you are a minority in a country YOU HAVE to support one political trend or the other. Don't you? Even the remaining Greeks of Constantinople and the Armenians and the Kurds of Turkey vote for turkish political parties. Does that make them Turks?


How come the leader of Ataturk's party is an Alewite then???? If they are a different ethnic group, how come millions of Turkish Sunnis vote for this party? No need to mention CHP is quite nationalistic. I live in Turkey and I haven't met a single Alewite saying 'I am not Turkish but I am Alawite.` You are an outsider without having met a single Alewite and you claim they are not Turks!! Show us proof or shut up.
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Re: THE ALEVI OF ANATOLIA

Postby GreekIslandGirl » Mon Aug 19, 2013 12:30 pm

An interesting interview with a disgruntled Alevi leader which should hopefully educate the self-publicized uninformed "stpier" ....

"We are Alevi" the banner says.


Erdogan’s Negative Comments Unite Turkish Alevis

A protester holds a banner reading "We Are Alevi," as he and many others wait to hear a decision of the court in front of a courthouse in Ankara.


Summary :

Selahattin Ozel, the head of a Turkish Alevi federation, comments on the marginalization of Alevis in Turkish society and their current role in the Turkish-Kurdish peace process.


Radikal: All Alevi associations and federations came together in Kayseri to discuss the settlement process. Was this a one-off event?

Ozel: No. We have been able to come together for some time. The rhetoric against us has been so ostracizing that it made us abandon the mentality of factionalism. In the meantime, those Alevi groups which catered to personal interests or were set up with tacit state sponsorship were exposed and so were their agendas. They were weeded out.
In our community, there is always debate; we have a culture of debate. Certainly we have not dropped this trait. But we have joined forces on fundamental issues such as the demand for the Madimak Hotel to become a museum [in memory of scores of Alevi intellectuals who were burnt alive there by an Islamist mob in 1993], the status of the cemevis [Alevi houses of worship] and the scope and practices of the Religious Affairs Directorate. Prime Minister Recep Tayyip Erdogan, too, has contributed a lot in bringing us together.

Radikal: How come?

Ozel: Erdogan’s rhetoric and policies on the Alevis keep us united and vigorous. His rhetoric on the Alevis has been very divisive, very ostracizing. Thanks to his attitude, we came to realize how untimely our petty arguments are, that we are in fact struggling for our survival and thus we closed ranks. During rallies at the time of the referendum [in 2010], the prime minister got all Alevis booed in the person of [main opposition leader Kemal] Kilicdaroglu. What else were we supposed to do but to close ranks?

Read the rest here ...


http://www.al-monitor.com/pulse/politic ... -ozel.html
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Re: THE ALEVI OF ANATOLIA

Postby stpier » Mon Aug 19, 2013 12:37 pm

GreekIslandGirl wrote:An interesting interview with a disgruntled Alevi leader which should hopefully educate the self-publicized uninformed "stpier" ....

"We are Alevi" the banner says.


Erdogan’s Negative Comments Unite Turkish Alevis

A protester holds a banner reading "We Are Alevi," as he and many others wait to hear a decision of the court in front of a courthouse in Ankara.


Summary :

Selahattin Ozel, the head of a Turkish Alevi federation, comments on the marginalization of Alevis in Turkish society and their current role in the Turkish-Kurdish peace process.


Radikal: All Alevi associations and federations came together in Kayseri to discuss the settlement process. Was this a one-off event?

Ozel: No. We have been able to come together for some time. The rhetoric against us has been so ostracizing that it made us abandon the mentality of factionalism. In the meantime, those Alevi groups which catered to personal interests or were set up with tacit state sponsorship were exposed and so were their agendas. They were weeded out.
In our community, there is always debate; we have a culture of debate. Certainly we have not dropped this trait. But we have joined forces on fundamental issues such as the demand for the Madimak Hotel to become a museum [in memory of scores of Alevi intellectuals who were burnt alive there by an Islamist mob in 1993], the status of the cemevis [Alevi houses of worship] and the scope and practices of the Religious Affairs Directorate. Prime Minister Recep Tayyip Erdogan, too, has contributed a lot in bringing us together.

Radikal: How come?

Ozel: Erdogan’s rhetoric and policies on the Alevis keep us united and vigorous. His rhetoric on the Alevis has been very divisive, very ostracizing. Thanks to his attitude, we came to realize how untimely our petty arguments are, that we are in fact struggling for our survival and thus we closed ranks. During rallies at the time of the referendum [in 2010], the prime minister got all Alevis booed in the person of [main opposition leader Kemal] Kilicdaroglu. What else were we supposed to do but to close ranks?

Read the rest here ...


http://www.al-monitor.com/pulse/politic ... -ozel.html


Of course they are Alewite, no one said they were Sunni! You claim they are not Turk, so show proof that they are a different ethnic group! Or just shut up if you have no clue GreeklandsouthofTurkishRepublicofNorthernCyprusWoman.
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Re: THE ALEVI OF ANATOLIA

Postby GreekIslandGirl » Mon Aug 19, 2013 12:42 pm

stpier wrote:
GreekIslandGirl wrote:An interesting interview with a disgruntled Alevi leader which should hopefully educate the self-publicized uninformed "stpier" ....

"We are Alevi" the banner says.


Erdogan’s Negative Comments Unite Turkish Alevis

A protester holds a banner reading "We Are Alevi," as he and many others wait to hear a decision of the court in front of a courthouse in Ankara.


Summary :

Selahattin Ozel, the head of a Turkish Alevi federation, comments on the marginalization of Alevis in Turkish society and their current role in the Turkish-Kurdish peace process.


Radikal: All Alevi associations and federations came together in Kayseri to discuss the settlement process. Was this a one-off event?

Ozel: No. We have been able to come together for some time. The rhetoric against us has been so ostracizing that it made us abandon the mentality of factionalism. In the meantime, those Alevi groups which catered to personal interests or were set up with tacit state sponsorship were exposed and so were their agendas. They were weeded out.
In our community, there is always debate; we have a culture of debate. Certainly we have not dropped this trait. But we have joined forces on fundamental issues such as the demand for the Madimak Hotel to become a museum [in memory of scores of Alevi intellectuals who were burnt alive there by an Islamist mob in 1993], the status of the cemevis [Alevi houses of worship] and the scope and practices of the Religious Affairs Directorate. Prime Minister Recep Tayyip Erdogan, too, has contributed a lot in bringing us together.

Radikal: How come?

Ozel: Erdogan’s rhetoric and policies on the Alevis keep us united and vigorous. His rhetoric on the Alevis has been very divisive, very ostracizing. Thanks to his attitude, we came to realize how untimely our petty arguments are, that we are in fact struggling for our survival and thus we closed ranks. During rallies at the time of the referendum [in 2010], the prime minister got all Alevis booed in the person of [main opposition leader Kemal] Kilicdaroglu. What else were we supposed to do but to close ranks?

Read the rest here ...


http://www.al-monitor.com/pulse/politic ... -ozel.html


Of course they are Alewite, no one said they were Sunni! You claim they are not Turk, so show proof that they are a different ethnic group! Or just shut up if you have no clue GreeklandsouthofTurkishRepublicofNorthernCyprusWoman.


Where did I make such a claim?

But, spitter, since you are still confused, Erdogan might be the one to ask because he is the one isolating them ...
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Re: THE ALEVI OF ANATOLIA

Postby stpier » Mon Aug 19, 2013 12:46 pm

GreekIslandGirl wrote:
stpier wrote:
GreekIslandGirl wrote:An interesting interview with a disgruntled Alevi leader which should hopefully educate the self-publicized uninformed "stpier" ....

"We are Alevi" the banner says.


Erdogan’s Negative Comments Unite Turkish Alevis

A protester holds a banner reading "We Are Alevi," as he and many others wait to hear a decision of the court in front of a courthouse in Ankara.


Summary :

Selahattin Ozel, the head of a Turkish Alevi federation, comments on the marginalization of Alevis in Turkish society and their current role in the Turkish-Kurdish peace process.


Radikal: All Alevi associations and federations came together in Kayseri to discuss the settlement process. Was this a one-off event?

Ozel: No. We have been able to come together for some time. The rhetoric against us has been so ostracizing that it made us abandon the mentality of factionalism. In the meantime, those Alevi groups which catered to personal interests or were set up with tacit state sponsorship were exposed and so were their agendas. They were weeded out.
In our community, there is always debate; we have a culture of debate. Certainly we have not dropped this trait. But we have joined forces on fundamental issues such as the demand for the Madimak Hotel to become a museum [in memory of scores of Alevi intellectuals who were burnt alive there by an Islamist mob in 1993], the status of the cemevis [Alevi houses of worship] and the scope and practices of the Religious Affairs Directorate. Prime Minister Recep Tayyip Erdogan, too, has contributed a lot in bringing us together.

Radikal: How come?

Ozel: Erdogan’s rhetoric and policies on the Alevis keep us united and vigorous. His rhetoric on the Alevis has been very divisive, very ostracizing. Thanks to his attitude, we came to realize how untimely our petty arguments are, that we are in fact struggling for our survival and thus we closed ranks. During rallies at the time of the referendum [in 2010], the prime minister got all Alevis booed in the person of [main opposition leader Kemal] Kilicdaroglu. What else were we supposed to do but to close ranks?

Read the rest here ...


http://www.al-monitor.com/pulse/politic ... -ozel.html


Of course they are Alewite, no one said they were Sunni! You claim they are not Turk, so show proof that they are a different ethnic group! Or just shut up if you have no clue GreeklandsouthofTurkishRepublicofNorthernCyprusWoman.


Where did I make such a claim?

But, spitter, since you are still confused, Erdogan might be the one to ask because he is the one isolating them ...


You = kimon and other confused enemies. So what was your point posting the previous? Any contribution to the discussion? Plus Alewites are ultra Kemalists and proud Turks so they probably hate people like you GreeklandsouthofTurkishRepublicofNorthernCyprusWoman.
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Re: THE ALEVI OF ANATOLIA

Postby Tim Drayton » Mon Aug 19, 2013 1:10 pm

kimon07 wrote:
Tim Drayton wrote:Just to corroborate my above claim, the following quote comes from an interview with Ali Kenanoğlu, head of the Hubyar Sultan Alevi cultural society in Istanbul.

But Aykanat says while there are some religious and cultural differences between Syrian Alawites and their Turkish cousins, they share a common identity.

He says his people are Anatolian Alevis and those in Syria are Arab Alevis. But he says wherever you go in the world, if you use the word Alevi or Alawite, you are connected by a brotherhood.


http://sofiaecho.com/2012/03/16/1789263 ... a-conflict

On the other hand, to show that there are other views:

Are Syrian Alawites and Turkish Alevis the same?

http://globalpublicsquare.blogs.cnn.com ... -the-same/

I would disagree with the assertion that the term 'Alevi' is not used in English. One frequently encounters it in articles about Turkey. In fact, there is a Wikipedia article with 'Alevi' as its title: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alevi


I never said that. On the contrary, I was the first to link to wiki about both the Alevis and the Alawaites (see above) and wiki distinguishes between the two.

In any case, I would have no problem whatsoever to accept that their is a debate about this issue. But I don’t think is that important. What IS important I thinlk is that, according to the sources to which I linked above, the Alevis of Turkey have started developing the idea of a unique ethnic/cultural identity.


No, stpier made the claim that the word 'Alevi' is not used in English.
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Re: THE ALEVI OF ANATOLIA

Postby kimon07 » Mon Aug 19, 2013 1:17 pm

stpier wrote:
kimon07 wrote:
stpier wrote:
stpier wrote:There is no such word as Alevi in English. Just go to google translate and search for Alewite and look for the Turkish translation. :D Dumb Rum.

Now back to my unanswered question: How many times have you been to Central Anatolia and how many Alewites have you met in person? Show us proof that they consider themselves as a separate ethnic group :!:


asking it for the 3rd time and no response..... How come these leftist Kemalist people are not Turkish?


Simple. They support Kemalism hoping that islamism will not prevail in Turkey fearing, in such a case, the worst for their minority. Just read the turkish press to see how Erdogan speaks publicly about them and their worship places. Besides, if you are a minority in a country YOU HAVE to support one political trend or the other. Don't you? Even the remaining Greeks of Constantinople and the Armenians and the Kurds of Turkey vote for turkish political parties. Does that make them Turks?


How come the leader of Ataturk's party is an Alewite then???? If they are a different ethnic group, how come millions of Turkish Sunnis vote for this party? No need to mention CHP is quite nationalistic. I live in Turkey and I haven't met a single Alewite saying 'I am not Turkish but I am Alawite.` You are an outsider without having met a single Alewite and you claim they are not Turks!! Show us proof or shut up.


See my posts and my links again. I said, or rather, my linlks showed, they are reestablishing their status moving towards appearing themselves to be ont only a religious but also an ethnic minority. See above my links to avoid reposting them.

As for them declaing of being or not being Turkish, well. They already have enough troubles with the Turks as it is, especially in the country. Would you expect individuals to risk saying something else? In Turkey of all places?
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