Cyprus-Forum.com

[supporttheunderdog]

I'm not minimising what the Germans did during the war one bit because if Hitler had only killed one Jew simply for being Jewish, I would have thought that was too much, that he was a murderer and a racist and deserves his term in hell.

However, I was just reading about the slave trade and how disgustingly Africans were treated from the moments of capture in Africa, to their enforced trudges across wild country towards the ships they were piled into. The long sea journey across the Atlantic where they starved, lacking light and water etc etc etc., were beaten, chained and crowded so much they suffocated, not to mention dying of hypothermia, heat-exhaustion or disease over such a long time crossing. Absolutely appalling.

This carnage at the hands of the British and other slave traders lasted some 300 years.

And yet, I read that less than 5 million died out of the 14 million slaves involved in the transatlantic trade. It took 300 years of such inhumane atrocities to kill 5 million people. Across continents and ocean.

This is food for thought to generate some perspective.

How flipping efficient were the Germans to manage to kill 6 Million people over such a short period of time within such a small region of Europe?

...yes, the final solution was calculated to take only a year, how flipping efficient were they when it took more that 2 years to do what was by their calculations, half the work? i suppose the war had something to do with that. i wonder, who would have been next?

how long did it take the turks to kill 1.5 million armenians, a few months...?

Stalin is estimated to have killed 7 million Ukranians in about that time frame, with an artificial famine. As for Hitler, after the Jews I would think the Slavs.

[repulsewarrior]

One of the most important aspects of events in Turkey for the Nazis was the “völkisch purity” of the New Turkey and the “cleansing” of the new state of “parasitical” minorities. The obvious example was the population exchange of Greeks and Turks in 1923, but a darker case was, of course, the fate of the Ottoman Armenians in 1915-16. Exploring the echoes between the Armenians and the Jews is beyond the scope of Ihrig’s book, but he does comment on the similarities in the ideological “justifications” – both German and Turkish nationalists saw minority groups as “bloodsuckers” that had “stabbed the nation in the back.” Hitler himself often referred to the Armenians, in one article declaring the “wretched Armenian” to be “swine, corrupt, sordid, without conscience, like beggars, submissive, even doglike.” At the same time, the Kemalists contrasted the multiethnic, cosmopolitan Istanbul unfavorably with Ankara, the “pure” new capital in the Anatolian heartland; similarly, the Nazis contrasted the decadent Berlin with the völkisch Bavarian city Munich

.

http://www.hurriyetdailynews.com/atatur ... sCatID=474

Some pro-government voices have been getting very excited about Ihrig’s book, saying it proves the fascist tendencies in elements of the Turkish Republic's founding ideology. That may not be entirely wrong, but it misses the point: The book is fundamentally about German perception, not Turkish reality. Ihrig repeatedly emphasizes that the Nazi vision of Atatürk and Kemalist Turkey was highly selective and unresponsive to actual developments in the country, with the Nazis simply accentuating whatever they wanted to see. Kemalism may well have contained elements that foreshadowed fascism, but the Nazi fascination with Atatürk and Turkey does not in itself prove that Kemalism was fascist. “It only illustrates,” Ihrig suggests, “how selective and predetermined the Nazi vision of Turkey was and … how ambiguous the Kemalist project still was, that it could ‘accommodate’ such perceptions.”

Atatürk in the Nazi imagination

[Lordo]

kemalizm brought terggy from 15th century to the 21st century in one move. they have also removed religion out of government, something the european governments including groc has been unable to do up to this point.

of course we also had ismet inonu not only second in command but also became president too who was kurdish. if the nazis were like the kemalists they would have had a a jew second in command and their next chancellor would have been a jew too. who ever wrote this article is way out of their depth.