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A little look back at Cyprus history

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Re: A little look back at Cyprus history

Postby Paphitis » Tue May 12, 2015 11:17 am

Tim Drayton wrote:
GreekIslandGirl wrote:

And yet you tried to pass it off as "will become". I don't need to tell you, of all people, about the rhetorical significance of what you just did in that post. :wink:

Now, what is logical is for the Cypriot people to not be continually divided by the enforcement of Turkish as an official language in an attempt to continue the anachronistic and divisive tactics that Imperialist Britain enforced upon us before semi-departing from Cyprus! Turkish is a recent, foreign introduction and has NO historical basis for being enshrined in our Constitution! Agreed?

My hope is that the EU perspective on human/individual rights will prevail and the ONLY logical thing will come to pass ...


To my mind, it is clear that this is what will happen if there is a settlement to the Cyprus problem.


It's pretty clear in my mind too so I agree with you.

The RoC has no objections to the Turkish language either.

It's not a big deal and in fact, having Turkish as an official language might be actually beneficial one day in the future.
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Re: A little look back at Cyprus history

Postby Tim Drayton » Tue May 12, 2015 11:18 am

Sotos wrote:A related question is: What other countries have as official, languages spoken by minorities... especially non-native minorities? Some examples: Bulgaria has 10% Turkish speakers, but Turkish is not an official languages. Latvia has nearly 30% Russian speakers but Russian is not an official language... same with the other Baltics. Kurdish is not an official language in Turkey. There are some ... like English in South Africa... but this doesn't seem to be the norm.


How about Romansh, one of the four official languages of Switzerland, spoken by about 0.9% of the population?
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Re: A little look back at Cyprus history

Postby GreekIslandGirl » Tue May 12, 2015 11:28 am

supporttheunderdog wrote:
GreekIslandGirl wrote:
supporttheunderdog wrote:
GreekIslandGirl wrote:"Cyprus History"

Turkish was a very recent import to Cyprus - imported by the British to help split the island.

This Turkish was a language invented in Turkey by Ataturk at a time (1920s) when Turkey had ZERO hold on Cyprus. The British brought Turkey into Cyprus' affairs in the 1950s and instilled this opportunistic language for political gain. Such imperialist tricks must be exposed and shunned now.

As I said - it is NO LONGER a recognized language of the Republic of Cyprus - by deed of the EU!


You are talking shite again, Madam, with your usual distortions of the truth. Turkish as a language has written inscriptions dating back to 700 AD or so and it was in fact imported into Cyprus with the Ottoman Invasion, not by the Brits - that is your usual shit for brains racism kicking in - Ottoman Turkish however imported may words from Arabic and Persian, and what Kemal did, or tried to do, was take many of the loan words out.

In actual fact the version of Turkish spoken in Cyprus was NOT the version promoted by Kemal but a distinct dialect unique to Cyprus which is now declining under the influence of the Anatolian Settlers - may they all soon piss off to Turkey along with troops - and the influence of Turkish Media - TV and the Like. Otherwise what language were the current TC speaking in 1878 and how did the British managed to persuade some 20% of the Population to speak a new language?

Wallow in your delusions - they are a canker eating you up in you own hatred from the inside.


If there is any canker eating me up, it is because my country is under Turkish occupation. Now, what is the hatred eating you up that you have to keep finding Wikipedia nonsense to try and counter comments you only half understand?


You are making assertions which are nonsense and thus incapable of being understood - as is not unusual. I ask you again: how could Britain get 20% or so of the population to learn a language in the space of under 40 years? The answer is they did not - because the version of Turkish they actually spoke - which was distinct from Mainland Turkish - developed before the Brits ever took over Cyprus in 1878 - where it arrived following the 16th C Ottoman Invasion and settlement.


The Turkish that was enshrined by the imperialist-Brits into our Constitution was Ataturk's Turkish of the 1920s when Turkey had ZERO call over Cyprus. So stop equivocating. Moreover, this is again where your Wikipedia-knowledge lets you down on our history. Most of that 15% TC population that received our Constitution from the Brits also spoke GREEK ...through choice! The Brits did not have to teach them any new languages but they enshrined Turkish for us so that Turkey continued its interest here.
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Re: A little look back at Cyprus history

Postby Tim Drayton » Tue May 12, 2015 11:29 am

Paphitis wrote:
Tim Drayton wrote:
GreekIslandGirl wrote:

And yet you tried to pass it off as "will become". I don't need to tell you, of all people, about the rhetorical significance of what you just did in that post. :wink:

Now, what is logical is for the Cypriot people to not be continually divided by the enforcement of Turkish as an official language in an attempt to continue the anachronistic and divisive tactics that Imperialist Britain enforced upon us before semi-departing from Cyprus! Turkish is a recent, foreign introduction and has NO historical basis for being enshrined in our Constitution! Agreed?

My hope is that the EU perspective on human/individual rights will prevail and the ONLY logical thing will come to pass ...


To my mind, it is clear that this is what will happen if there is a settlement to the Cyprus problem.


It's pretty clear in my mind too so I agree with you.

The RoC has no objections to the Turkish language either.

It's not a big deal and in fact, having Turkish as an official language might be actually beneficial one day in the future.


Thanks, sport. I think it is clear that the reason Turkish was not adopted as an official EU language when Cyprus acceded was because the EU acquis communautaire was suspended in the part of the island not under government control. However, if there is a settlement of the Cyprus problem involving the creation of a federal state having Greek and Turkish as its official language, and a Greek Cypriot statelet having Greek as its official language, and a Turkish Cypriot statelet having Turkish as its official language, it is pretty obvious to my mind that one of the amendments for which provision has been made in the article reading “In the event of a settlement, the Council, acting unanimously on the basis of a proposal from the Commission, shall decide on the adaptations to the terms concerning the accession of Cyprus to the European Union with regard to the Turkish Cypriot Community” will be the adoption of Turkish as an official EU language.

Even if this does not happen, this would not be tantamount to the EU not recognising the official status of Turkish in Cyprus, as is shown by the example of Luxembuorgish and also the fact that the website of the European Commission Representation in Cyprus is in three languages, including Turkish.

So, all in all, a pretty pointless debate.
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Re: A little look back at Cyprus history

Postby GreekIslandGirl » Tue May 12, 2015 11:33 am

Tim Drayton wrote:
Sotos wrote:A related question is: What other countries have as official, languages spoken by minorities... especially non-native minorities? Some examples: Bulgaria has 10% Turkish speakers, but Turkish is not an official languages. Latvia has nearly 30% Russian speakers but Russian is not an official language... same with the other Baltics. Kurdish is not an official language in Turkey. There are some ... like English in South Africa... but this doesn't seem to be the norm.


How about Romansh, one of the four official languages of Switzerland, spoken by about 0.9% of the population?


It's a national language not an official language.

The four national languages of Switzerland are German, French, Italian and Romansh.[2] All but Romansh maintain equal status as official languages at the national level within the Federal Administration of the Swiss Confederation.[3]


Stud-wiki

Sadly it seems some Brits still want us to keep the Turkish their ancestors imposed upon us, even knowing the consequences of those actions ...
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Re: A little look back at Cyprus history

Postby supporttheunderdog » Tue May 12, 2015 11:59 am

In 2005 The Council of the European Union in Luxembourg authorized limited use at EU level of languages recognized by member states, other than the official working languages of the EU.

Spain in particular has used this decsion to approve as co-official languages Basque, Catalan/Valencian and Galician, while the UK has used the June 2005 council decision to include Welsh and Gaelic.

I personally think that as Turkish is an official language of Cyprus it should probably already have co-official status at the EU. If Turkey ever joins (not something I think is currently desirable, for a number of reasons, including the Invasion, as well as the current regime) then I think it a dead cert that Tukish will become a full official language.
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Re: A little look back at Cyprus history

Postby Tim Drayton » Tue May 12, 2015 12:02 pm

GreekIslandGirl wrote:... Ataturk's Turkish of the 1920s ...


I am a great admirer of Mustafa Kemal Atatürk, too, but the assertion that he single-handedly invented a new language in the 1920's is absurd. In fact, the move to replace the Ottoman Language with a language closer to the vernacular used by the people - one that parallels the adoption of Demotic Greek as the official language in Greece - goes back further than Mustafa Kemal. Ziya Gökalp, born 1876, is generally considered to be the father of the movement to strip Ottoman of its accretions borrowed from Arabic and Persian and create a new national language with which the people at large could identify, the Ottoman language only being comprehensible to a small clique of bureaucrats. Turkish was the main vernacular language of Anatolia throughout the Ottoman era, but it was not used in written form. The movement to bring the official, written language more closely into line with the language spoken by most of the people of Anatolia gradually grew in strength, and Mustafa Kemal, as great moderniser, was also a supporter. Study of works by proponents of language reform, such as those of of the novelist and journalist Yakup Kadri Karaosmanoğlu in the final decades of the Ottoman Empire, show that this movement had already taken great strides forward even before the founding of the Turkish Republic. Following the establishment of the Republic, through moves such as the adoption of the Roman script and the creation of the Turkish Language Institute, the project of stripping the old official language of its Arabic and Persian influences and creating a national language that ordinary people could recognise as being 'theirs' was brought to full fruition. Undoubtedly, Atatürk was a great supporter and patron of this project, but to say that he invented modern Turkish all by himself is a bit of an exaggeration.
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Re: A little look back at Cyprus history

Postby GreekIslandGirl » Tue May 12, 2015 12:02 pm

Tim Drayton wrote: ... However, if there is a settlement of the Cyprus problem involving the creation of a federal state having Greek and Turkish as its official language, and a Greek Cypriot statelet having Greek as its official language, and a Turkish Cypriot statelet having Turkish as its official language, it is pretty obvious to my mind ....


Oh, wouldn't you just love that! The Imperialist-British dream solution! :roll:

Cyprus didn't go into the EU to set up "Turkish statelets" to complete the nonsense that Imperialist-Britain imposed upon us in 1960!
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Re: A little look back at Cyprus history

Postby GreekIslandGirl » Tue May 12, 2015 12:05 pm

Tim Drayton wrote:
GreekIslandGirl wrote:... Ataturk's Turkish of the 1920s ...


I am a great admirer of Mustafa Kemal Atatürk, too, but the assertion that he single-handedly invented a new language in the 1920's is absurd. In fact, the move to replace the Ottoman Language with a language closer to the vernacular used by the people - one that parallels the adoption of Demotic Greek as the official language in Greece - goes back further than Mustafa Kemal. Ziya Gökalp, born 1876, is generally considered to be the father of the movement to strip Ottoman of its accretions borrowed from Arabic and Persian and create a new national language with which the people at large could identify, the Ottoman language only being comprehensible to a small clique of bureaucrats. Turkish was the main vernacular language of Anatolia throughout the Ottoman era, but it was not used in written form. The movement to bring the official, written language more closely into line with the language spoken by most of the people of Anatolia gradually grew in strength, and Mustafa Kemal, as great moderniser, was also a supporter. Study of works by proponents of language reform, such as those of of the novelist and journalist Yakup Kadri Karaosmanoğlu in the final decades of the Ottoman Empire, show that this movement had already taken great strides forward even before the founding of the Turkish Republic. Following the establishment of the Republic, through moves such as the adoption of the Roman script and the creation of the Turkish Language Institute, the project of stripping the old official language of its Arabic and Persian influences and creating a national language that ordinary people could recognise as being 'theirs' was brought to full fruition. Undoubtedly, Atatürk was a great supporter and patron of this project, but to say that he invented modern Turkish all by himself is a bit of an exaggeration.


He has noting to do with Cyprus' history. And he and his 'projects' should have nothing to do with our future, thank you.
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Re: A little look back at Cyprus history

Postby Tim Drayton » Tue May 12, 2015 12:23 pm

GreekIslandGirl wrote:
Tim Drayton wrote: ... However, if there is a settlement of the Cyprus problem involving the creation of a federal state having Greek and Turkish as its official language, and a Greek Cypriot statelet having Greek as its official language, and a Turkish Cypriot statelet having Turkish as its official language, it is pretty obvious to my mind ....


Oh, wouldn't you just love that! The Imperialist-British dream solution! :roll:

Cyprus didn't go into the EU to set up "Turkish statelets" to complete the nonsense that Imperialist-Britain imposed upon us in 1960!


How do you envisage the bi-communal, bi-zonal federal solution that is on the negotiating table?
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