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A little look back at Cyprus history

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Re: A little look back at Cyprus history

Postby Tim Drayton » Tue May 12, 2015 5:28 pm

It is possible to find a number of very stable and successful countries which have multiple national/recognised/official languages, e.g.
Singapore: English, Malay, Mandarin, and Tamil
Switzerland: German, French, Italian and Romansh
Finland: Finnish and Swedish,
so having more than one official language does not necessarily lead to division.
(I accept that there are counter examples, too.)
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Re: A little look back at Cyprus history

Postby Tim Drayton » Tue May 12, 2015 5:45 pm

MR-from-NG wrote:
GreekIslandGirl wrote:Tim, the argument is that Turkish was enforced into the Constitution as it was drawn up by the Imperialist British who wanted to sow division.

Not many are happy with everything in that Constitution - except perhaps the Turks who gain an advantage and Brits who drew it up.


The fact that we are Cypriots and we are happy cancels your argument right out. Can you put a number on the "many" that are "not happy"?


On the other hand, given that the Republic broke up under ethnic strife after a mere three years, I think it is valid to ask whether the constitution was a contributory, or even the main, factor. There are those who argue this.
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Re: A little look back at Cyprus history

Postby MR-from-NG » Tue May 12, 2015 6:04 pm

Tim Drayton wrote:
MR-from-NG wrote:
GreekIslandGirl wrote:Tim, the argument is that Turkish was enforced into the Constitution as it was drawn up by the Imperialist British who wanted to sow division.

Not many are happy with everything in that Constitution - except perhaps the Turks who gain an advantage and Brits who drew it up.


The fact that we are Cypriots and we are happy cancels your argument right out. Can you put a number on the "many" that are "not happy"?


On the other hand, given that the Republic broke up under ethnic strife after a mere three years, I think it is valid to ask whether the constitution was a contributory, or even the main, factor. There are those who argue this.


Good point Tim. Rumour has it that there was a GUN held to Makarios' head to sign the constitution :shock:

My father is now 85, he knows the GC's very well. He worked for them, he worked with them, he even employed them. He knows I participate on the forum and he think I'm mad and just loughs about it. He always, says, no matter how well meaning the GC may seem, how polite they may be to your face and how accommodating they may come across, you turn your back on a GC he'll stab you to death. He is convinced they hate us with a vengeance and whatever happens they will one day cleanse Cyprus of TC's. There will never be peace between TC;'s and GC's. His words, not mine.
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Re: A little look back at Cyprus history

Postby GreekIslandGirl » Tue May 12, 2015 6:22 pm

Tim Drayton wrote:Arguably, a better way to sow division would have been to deny recognition to the language of one of the island's main communities and that community would have had a grievance from the outset.


Such an extreme would have been too obvious and would have been globally recognized as unacceptable. There were some other subtleties, that one of the British foreign ministers revealed, that were similarly treated - I forget the source, maybe Mallinson's book - mentioned on the forum before. I'll check when I can.
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Re: A little look back at Cyprus history

Postby GreekIslandGirl » Tue May 12, 2015 6:23 pm

MR-from-NG wrote:
GreekIslandGirl wrote:Tim, the argument is that Turkish was enforced into the Constitution as it was drawn up by the Imperialist British who wanted to sow division.

Not many are happy with everything in that Constitution - except perhaps the Turks who gain an advantage and Brits who drew it up.


The fact that we are Cypriots and we are happy cancels your argument right out. Can you put a number on the "many" that are "not happy"?


Only the TCs are happy. Happy to have free land and property.
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Re: A little look back at Cyprus history

Postby MR-from-NG » Tue May 12, 2015 6:27 pm

GreekIslandGirl wrote:
MR-from-NG wrote:
GreekIslandGirl wrote:Tim, the argument is that Turkish was enforced into the Constitution as it was drawn up by the Imperialist British who wanted to sow division.

Not many are happy with everything in that Constitution - except perhaps the Turks who gain an advantage and Brits who drew it up.


The fact that we are Cypriots and we are happy cancels your argument right out. Can you put a number on the "many" that are "not happy"?


Only the TCs are happy. Happy to have free land and property.


You had your land and property and we had ours. This all changed in 1963 and got worse in 74. We all know who is responsible for the awful events that followed.
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Re: A little look back at Cyprus history

Postby GreekIslandGirl » Tue May 12, 2015 6:34 pm

MR-from-NG wrote: ... He always, says, no matter how well meaning the GC may seem, how polite they may be to your face and how accommodating they may come across, you turn your back on a GC he'll stab you to death. ...


Bit rich even by your standards! And there was I thinking that was a famous Arab proverb against Turks ...

"the last act of a Turk is a stab in the back"

I see from your ridiculous answer (above post), that you have proved my point ...

Responsible? You don't know the meaning of the word ... in ANY language!
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Re: A little look back at Cyprus history

Postby GreekIslandGirl » Tue May 12, 2015 6:44 pm

Tim Drayton wrote:It is possible to find a number of very stable and successful countries which have multiple national/recognised/official languages, e.g.
Singapore: English, Malay, Mandarin, and Tamil
Switzerland: German, French, Italian and Romansh
Finland: Finnish and Swedish,
so having more than one official language does not necessarily lead to division.
(I accept that there are counter examples, too.)


I don't know why you are playing as if naive?

There were real reasons behind the English enforcing Turkish in Cyprus. We see the results today.

"...the Treaty of Lausanne forbade Turkey from involvement in former Ottoman territories. The British government's motive, as we shall see from the documents*, was simply to divide Greece and Turkey, and Greek and Turkish Cypriots, to facilitate its continuing hold on Cyprus".

"Britain and Cyprus", W. Mallinson, p.5

* Those documents are in the book and available for public viewing.
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Re: A little look back at Cyprus history

Postby Get Real! » Tue May 12, 2015 7:35 pm

MR-from-NG wrote:My father is now 85, he knows the GC's very well. He worked for them, he worked with them, he even employed them. He knows I participate on the forum and he think I'm mad and just loughs about it. He always, says, no matter how well meaning the GC may seem, how polite they may be to your face and how accommodating they may come across, you turn your back on a GC he'll stab you to death. He is convinced they hate us with a vengeance and whatever happens they will one day cleanse Cyprus of TC's. There will never be peace between TC;'s and GC's. His words, not mine.

It’s unfortunate that your forefathers came here uninvited with extreme malice… all 400+ years of it, so it’s silly to wonder why extreme hatred exists from the natives.

Acknowledge the horrendous atrocities committed by your forefathers against the natives here and show some understanding.

Just to get an idea, the native population would’ve been 4.5 million today had your forefathers never arrived!

You’d feel exactly the same if not worse had you been on the receiving end.

Oh wait… your people *do* moan about a mere decade of “misery”… (60s to 70s?) :roll:
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Re: A little look back at Cyprus history

Postby MR-from-NG » Tue May 12, 2015 8:02 pm

GreekIslandGirl wrote:
MR-from-NG wrote: ... He always, says, no matter how well meaning the GC may seem, how polite they may be to your face and how accommodating they may come across, you turn your back on a GC he'll stab you to death. ...


Bit rich even by your standards! And there was I thinking that was a famous Arab proverb against Turks ...

"the last act of a Turk is a stab in the back"

I see from your ridiculous answer (above post), that you have proved my point ...

Responsible? You don't know the meaning of the word ... in ANY language!


On the contrary, it is your community and leaders that did not take their responsibility seriously that resulted in the mess the country is in today.
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