Cyprus-Forum.com

[boulio]

Even at best with no derogations the TC state could reverse and make it like the Annan plan, but with one it would not even be considered in any court because from that one you could have all through legal interpretation and because the Gc voted for it.. My question is this. Why have our astute politicians(idiots) played the game of wanting a BBF for the past 41 years?

Because Denktash wanted partition and was talking clearly to the UN of what he wanted.
Our wise guys (starting with Klerides) who always wanted to be praised as the good boys even pushed the UN to issue a resolution that the solution should be BBF with political equality.
So just like they got trapped with the Annan Plan of trying to show up as the good boys (remember Papadopoulos himself sent a letter to the UN asking for negotiations on the Annan Plan) they got trapped in this BBF deal as well.

But Pyro, without the BBF deal, how else could the GCs get out of the 1959 agreements, specially once Turkey was already in Cyprus. BBF has bought a lot of time for the GCs as well as an opportunity to get rid of the 1959 agreements, and with a good BBF based on True Federation, there's always a chance the the country can once again become a unitary state in the future if all goes well with the TCs. Who knows, perhaps without BBF on the table for the last 40 odd years, it is possible the north would have been recognised by now. I don't know.

Problem is Kikapu that when BBF was first introduced there were very few settlers, practically no carpetbaggers, the number of the true Tcs was high enough, the majority of surplus housing was available for resettlement etc so we could reach a good BBF without much worries.Now we hear Nami saying he wants the minimum number of people relocating simply because he has no place to relocate them. We hear Morfou cannot be returned because it was developed.
Don't get me wrong in reality I respect Nami because from what I heard from his interviews he is a man who thinks of the difficulties of both the TCs and the Gcs and tries to find solutions under these very difficult conditions.
Imo BBF should have been replaced by autonomy for the Tcs within a Unitary state. Nevertheless it may still be possible to find a good BBF solution without derogations and nonsense, however it's really hard I think. How hard it is it will show when they start discussing the property issue. I still have some hopes, we will see...

the truth is has anyone really did a analysis that if the tc state was reduces to say 25-27% so you figure 90-100 k gc return to the gc state and the rest get their property rights in the north how many would actually return?someone who is 45 years old was four years old during the invasion basically has no ties to the north,i think that most of those 60-70k who would be entitled to get their properties in the north would most likely(80-90%)sell

[Lordo]

exactly boulio, but dont expect kikapu to understand.

[Pyrpolizer]

the truth is has anyone really did a analysis that if the tc state was reduces to say 25-27% so you figure 90-100 k gc return to the gc state and the rest get their property rights in the north how many would actually return?someone who is 45 years old was four years old during the invasion basically has no ties to the north,i think that most of those 60-70k who would be entitled to get their properties in the north would most likely(80-90%)sell

Aha! The question is how would they return when practically all properties are currently in use? For 100K to return there must be relocation of another 100K. The difficulties to return in either the area that would be returned to become GC Fed State or within the TC Fed state are basically the same.
I don't foresee much returning. What I foresee is moving of populations over the years to places where most jobs will be available.That's why I believe BBF is not sustainable. What we should make sure will in no way be violated is the right to property ownership and settlement/residing anywhere in Cyprus.

[Lordo]

2004 plan had such a plan. maras omorfo and the villages below the nicosia magusa and nicosia guzelyurt would have been returned to the southern federal staet control. there was going to be a program of construction on the north side of the two highways to house the people who had to relocate. you would hand over your key and pick up your new key.

but thats over now. it is unlikely to be offered second time. maras is all you are going to get. people who wish to move to the north will be accommodated according to eu court rulings. the rest will be exchanged with tc properties in the south.

[Oceanside50]

Even at best with no derogations the TC state could reverse and make it like the Annan plan, but with one it would not even be considered in any court because from that one you could have all through legal interpretation and because the Gc voted for it.. My question is this. Why have our astute politicians(idiots) played the game of wanting a BBF for the past 41 years?

Because Denktash wanted partition and was talking clearly to the UN of what he wanted.
Our wise guys (starting with Klerides) who always wanted to be praised as the good boys even pushed the UN to issue a resolution that the solution should be BBF with political equality.
So just like they got trapped with the Annan Plan of trying to show up as the good boys (remember Papadopoulos himself sent a letter to the UN asking for negotiations on the Annan Plan) they got trapped in this BBF deal as well.

.

Cantons was a word that resonated back in the 70s and 80s. All Tc/ Gc going back to their villages and the Tc having a sort of autonomy , ie courts, etc.. If these guys don't get it this time then what?

[Lordo]

cantons my left foot. never again in enclaves. ffs what the hell is the matter with you people. you do not deserve the friendship of the tcs.

[Pyrpolizer]

2004 plan had such a plan. maras omorfo and the villages below the nicosia magusa and nicosia guzelyurt would have been returned to the southern federal staet control. there was going to be a program of construction on the north side of the two highways to house the people who had to relocate. you would hand over your key and pick up your new key.

but thats over now. it is unlikely to be offered second time. maras is all you are going to get. people who wish to move to the north will be accommodated according to eu court rulings. the rest will be exchanged with tc properties in the south.

Then get prepared to kiss goodbye the BBF and pack up while Turkey replaces you with better consumables. Guess what, we'd better do a real Federal state with the Israelis. They won't be as stupid as you to miss such an offer

[Lordo]

2004 plan had such a plan. maras omorfo and the villages below the nicosia magusa and nicosia guzelyurt would have been returned to the southern federal staet control. there was going to be a program of construction on the north side of the two highways to house the people who had to relocate. you would hand over your key and pick up your new key.

but thats over now. it is unlikely to be offered second time. maras is all you are going to get. people who wish to move to the north will be accommodated according to eu court rulings. the rest will be exchanged with tc properties in the south.

Then get prepared to kiss goodbye the BBF and pack up while Turkey replaces you with better consumables. Guess what, we'd better do a real Federal state with the Israelis. They won't be as stupid as you to miss such an offer

enjoy your relationship with your new found friends.

[Get Real!]

cantons my left foot. never again in enclaves. ffs what the hell is the matter with you people. you do not deserve the friendship of the tcs.

You can always shove it for all its worth...

[Get Real!]

the truth is has anyone really did a analysis that if the tc state was reduces to say 25-27% so you figure 90-100 k gc return to the gc state and the rest get their property rights in the north how many would actually return?someone who is 45 years old was four years old during the invasion basically has no ties to the north,i think that most of those 60-70k who would be entitled to get their properties in the north would most likely(80-90%)sell

That’s not what I predict. The overwhelming majority who also happen to be wealthier will slowly but surely dominate the occupied territory too. They’ll be landlords renting out their rightful properties and the minority will be in need of accommodation and more importantly… work!

Sooner or later the law of numbers and the law of money would speak the loudest there also… (in the eventuality of a “bbf” which I don’t expect will come to pass anyway.)