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O X I !!!

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Re: O X I !!!

Postby Paphitis » Fri Jul 24, 2015 1:45 pm

Nikitas wrote:Fidelis, yes, and we are concerned about the situation and that is why we are discussing it.

Paphitis phrase really encapsulates it: "Yes sometimes jobs are handed out based on who you know in America, UK, Australia, Gulf States and even China but there is a difference. You still have to be qualified and be able to do the job and not just a taxi driver."

And that is the difference between the Greek versions of "Rousfetti" and others. In other places you get the job by favoritism, but you got to DO IT. Here Rousfetti extends through your career and you can be a total schmuck but all is forgiven, and there is always the qualified flunky who is kept under the schmuck's thumb doing the job for shit pay and no prospects.

There are brilliant exceptions, invariably in the private sector, in companies like Cocomat, shipping companies, food technology and IT, hopefully in the armed forces too. These companies are now being penalised with a tax increase and the compulsory deposit of 100 per cent of tax, effectively doubling their taxation for two years.

Things need to change fast.


In my experience, favoritism is well founded.

I was on a selection committee for a bit, and quite often the term "known quantity" was used for applicants who were either known by anyone on the panel or someone else within the company.

The definition of this term was applied to those who you went to school with, or had worked with before and because the industry is quite small the phenomena would occur regularly. The applicant was in effect being vouched for by people he/she knew within the company. People who were known quantities had massive advantages over anyone else. But once they were in, the rules were the same for them as anyone else and they could washout. 2 failures during training and they're out.
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Re: O X I !!!

Postby Paphitis » Fri Jul 24, 2015 2:12 pm

Good people in our industry know how to do their job and also know how to network.

This is something I try to do and as a result, I try to use things like Facebook and LinkedIn as networking tools. I keep my networks briefed as to what it is I am doing and likewise vice versa. As a result, I have expanded my networks all over the place, through dozens of companies in my industry. My networks even extend to Turkey. I know many people there, and only a few months ago was invited for an interview in Istanbul with a company that has many Greeks and Aussies working for it and which pays well and has great work conditions.

If you know people, then the hard work is done.

These days it's all about the money. That's what it comes down to. Money and the package they provide as bonuses such as accommodation and private schooling at elite schools.

Why the hell do you think the Middle East is crawling with Westerners. It's because of the money. Politics can get stuffed!

So why not Greece? Well, I have networks there too and I can get an interview there by next week if I wanted to but my networks there are too busy getting networks elsewhere (Turkey included) because the money that is paid in Greece is not nearly good enough!

Money talks and bullshit walks!

The young ones are in it for the glory. The older ones like me are in it for the money.

I'm not greedy, but I value my time. If I have to work, then I go for the highest bidders who also value my time.
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Re: O X I !!!

Postby Pyrpolizer » Fri Jul 24, 2015 11:32 pm

So favoritism in Greece makes a non productive government machine-like all government machines worldwide are actually- even less productive.
Is this the real problem of Greece? At least their public servants get paid less than in the private sector. In Cyprus public servants get double to triple salaries/pensions and benefits. And then people claim we are better off here. Nonsense!
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Re: O X I !!!

Postby Nikitas » Sat Jul 25, 2015 6:46 am

Pyro,

There is no unified pay scale in the Greek civil service, and it is one of the Troika demands which the government promised but never delivered. So it is possible for the cleaners in one ministry to earn more than PhD holders in another.

High pay jobs in the civils service are as high if not higher than their private sector equivalents. I posted the case of Tsotsoros who was appointed head of the State Petroleum industry at 170 thou p.a. and attempted to give himself a 110 per cent pay increase.

Then there are the multi position situations, ie an employee is appointed to several committees and each position brings a pay packet. Add also special laws, usually passed as amendments in other, unrelated legislation, that grant favors. One example: civil service agronomists carrying out private work such as environmental impact studies get their money tax free.

Civil servants have their own social insurance system and fund. The unification of these "funds" is another Troika demand.

Some public corporations, like the electric company, have radically different, ie higher, rates of pay and pensions.
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Re: O X I !!!

Postby Oceanside50 » Sat Jul 25, 2015 2:57 pm

GreekIslandGirl wrote:I have known a number of Greeks go through the British University system and they are by far several-fold more intelligent than the average British university student.

What holds Greeks back, after graduation (although many have made significant advances), is family loyalty and the desire to be moral and evaluative.

Brits might soar ahead, but not because they are more intelligent but simply because they are indifferent to others.


you are basically saying that Greeks and the offspring they produce tend to be very conservative..that in itself may be the problem with Greece at the moment. The myths of the past generation continue(anti Americanisms,anti Capitalist, antiEu,anti Change,Pro socialism, Proconspiracy theories against them) while more conservatism is piled onto the psyche of the Greeks until they are paralyzed.
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Re: O X I !!!

Postby Pyrpolizer » Sat Jul 25, 2015 5:58 pm

Nikitas wrote:Pyro,

There is no unified pay scale in the Greek civil service, and it is one of the Troika demands which the government promised but never delivered. So it is possible for the cleaners in one ministry to earn more than PhD holders in another.

High pay jobs in the civils service are as high if not higher than their private sector equivalents. I posted the case of Tsotsoros who was appointed head of the State Petroleum industry at 170 thou p.a. and attempted to give himself a 110 per cent pay increase.

Then there are the multi position situations, ie an employee is appointed to several committees and each position brings a pay packet. Add also special laws, usually passed as amendments in other, unrelated legislation, that grant favors. One example: civil service agronomists carrying out private work such as environmental impact studies get their money tax free.

Civil servants have their own social insurance system and fund. The unification of these "funds" is another Troika demand.

Some public corporations, like the electric company, have radically different, ie higher, rates of pay and pensions.


An overhaul needed indeed. Only the Troika can do that. Let's see.
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Re: O X I !!!

Postby Paphitis » Sun Jul 26, 2015 5:17 am

Nikitas wrote:Pyro,

There is no unified pay scale in the Greek civil service, and it is one of the Troika demands which the government promised but never delivered. So it is possible for the cleaners in one ministry to earn more than PhD holders in another.

High pay jobs in the civils service are as high if not higher than their private sector equivalents. I posted the case of Tsotsoros who was appointed head of the State Petroleum industry at 170 thou p.a. and attempted to give himself a 110 per cent pay increase.

Then there are the multi position situations, ie an employee is appointed to several committees and each position brings a pay packet. Add also special laws, usually passed as amendments in other, unrelated legislation, that grant favors. One example: civil service agronomists carrying out private work such as environmental impact studies get their money tax free.

Civil servants have their own social insurance system and fund. The unification of these "funds" is another Troika demand.

Some public corporations, like the electric company, have radically different, ie higher, rates of pay and pensions.


All the best Nikitas.

One day, Greece will reform itself whether the people like it or not. They can't keep going the way they are.

Maybe the Troika will force it down their throats.
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Re: O X I !!!

Postby Oceanside50 » Sun Jul 26, 2015 4:29 pm

Nikitas wrote:The Greeks harnessing the power of the Greek lobbies overseas needs at least two things: Greeks to stop treating the emigrants as idiots because they do not speak good Greek. I will get to that in a minute, and to concede some local knowledge and expertise to those emigrant Greeks.

There is the Ministry department of Emigrant Greeks that supposedly maintains and cultivates contacts with emigrants. I know that some friends who work therein have enjoyed sumptuous holidays in USA and Australia en famille, at government expense, because it is regarded as unfair to send an employee alone overseas on a work mission, the family should go along.

As to the language thing. Some years back a young Greek Australian medical researcher who made international news with a breakthrough in cancer diagnostics was invited to Greece. It was shameful to see local professors, most of whom inherited their seats, treat her like an idiot because she did not speak good Greek. I wanted to go to that meeting and address them in Cypriot terms, starting with gamo ton kapile sas pezevenghides.

I can understand George Stephanopoulos, the former Clinton aide and current TV newsman, refusing to speak Greek in interviews with the Greek press. He listens to the question in Greek and responds in English. He knows the ridicule he would receive if he got a word wrong despite being recognised as one of the most brilliant minds in the USA.

The same problem is faced by current finance minister Tsakalotos, an Oxford qualified economics professor, who labors a little with his Greek. But he manages to write the comments on his testicles as they say here, good for him.


http://www.pappaspost.com/more-than-fou ... volvement/

Paphitis mentioned Spiro Agnew, Vice President to Nixon, indicted on corruption in 1972 forced to resign. He visited Greece in 71 in praise of the Colonel's Juntan. Spiro in his speech at Athens airport poured praise on the Junta telling them that they are the best leaders for Greece since Pericles.

More Than Four Decades On, Memory of Military Dictatorship Resonates in Greece, As Does US Involvement
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Re: O X I !!!

Postby Cap » Sun Jul 26, 2015 5:22 pm

Oceanside50 wrote:
GreekIslandGirl wrote:I have known a number of Greeks go through the British University system and they are by far several-fold more intelligent than the average British university student.

What holds Greeks back, after graduation (although many have made significant advances), is family loyalty and the desire to be moral and evaluative.

Brits might soar ahead, but not because they are more intelligent but simply because they are indifferent to others.


you are basically saying that Greeks and the offspring they produce tend to be very conservative..that in itself may be the problem with Greece at the moment. The myths of the past generation continue(anti Americanisms,anti Capitalist, antiEu,anti Change,Pro socialism, Proconspiracy theories against them) while more conservatism is piled onto the psyche of the Greeks until they are paralyzed.


Well said oceans.
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Re: O X I !!!

Postby GreekIslandGirl » Sun Jul 26, 2015 5:59 pm

Oceanside50 wrote:
GreekIslandGirl wrote:I have known a number of Greeks go through the British University system and they are by far several-fold more intelligent than the average British university student.

What holds Greeks back, after graduation (although many have made significant advances), is family loyalty and the desire to be moral and evaluative.

Brits might soar ahead, but not because they are more intelligent but simply because they are indifferent to others.


you are basically saying that Greeks and the offspring they produce tend to be very conservative..that in itself may be the problem with Greece at the moment. The myths of the past generation continue(anti Americanisms,anti Capitalist, antiEu,anti Change,Pro socialism, Proconspiracy theories against them) while more conservatism is piled onto the psyche of the Greeks until they are paralyzed.


No, I meant Greeks in Greece are content with life and therefore do not strive. Very much into the moment and mindfulness (Buddha-like). They are a nightmare for capitalists, I dare say.
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